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[Eye In The Sky]

You wouldn't last long in the navy then. All sailors, when posted to ship, are expected to be able be on ship within 4hrs unless they are on out of area leave. You are expected to have a number by which you can be reached in case the ship's company is recalled.

So do your court martial them if they are out drunk Friday night and not on DW and get called? Good luck. The CFLPM applies to all CAF members does it not?

Again, you'd make a poor sailor and everyone would hate you for skiving. You go home when "secure" is piped, which is almost always 1545 (but may be he delayed a few minutes if all rounds haven't been signed if yet). However, if there is a major evolution going on (cold move, storing ship, ammunitioning, fueling, basic trial, OTT1/2,etc) and that even is delayed in getting done, will you're not going home. Now that doesn't mean the navy is heartless. If someone went up to their suervisor and said "I really can't say late today because of X", then they will very likely let that sailor go, if possible. My point is, you can't just say "fuck you boss, it's 1530, im out" in the military.

I’m just curious if you know what type of work the person you’re replying to comes from.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I know of a young bdr that was recently called in extra early and couldn't find last-minute day care so they informed the CoC they couldn't. Apparently that was recieved like a nuke and now she's getting picked up for every small infraction you can imagine.

I call that bullying and abuse of power. Forms of harassment…

Now soldiers get told they WILL answer their cell phone when the CoC calls and if they miss it they have a set amount of time to respond from when the call was placed or they'll recieved remedial measures.

Fml

A constant 4-hour notice to move sounds terrible. Even CANSOF doesn't do that.

I think that might be a bit of an exaggeration…if it isn’t we can answer some of the RCN retention issues.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is nothing critical or important in what we do, that's CAF wide. You may THINK you're important, but you're not. If we're done at 3 or 3:30, that's it, no coming back.

search and rescue. You know, “lives are at risk” stuff. You’ve never done it so you don’t know the feeling of going OFFSTA unsuccessful.

One thing that is briefed by Met before we take off, in our fleet at least, is survival times in water, with and without immersion suits on. It’s pretty critical and important to find a PIW before the later part of those times.

Peacetime ASW, because believe it or not, non-Allied subs can sail close to North America. Gaining contact is pretty fucking time critical.

There’s 2 easy ones.

Stop being a fuckstick.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

24 short days, 25+ leave days. So if that’s actually a thing, you could theoretically work a four day week all year.

Still wondering about your experience with working outside the CAF? Seeing as your argument is mostly based on how good it is on the CAF compared to outside the CAF?

 

[lenaitch]

search and rescue. You know, “lives are at risk” stuff. You’ve never done it so you don’t know the feeling of going OFFSTA unsuccessful.

One thing that is briefed by Met before we take off, in our fleet at least, is survival times in water, with and without immersion suits on. It’s pretty critical and important to find a PIW before the later part of those times.

Peacetime ASW, because believe it or not, non-Allied subs can sail close to North America. Gaining contact is pretty fucking time critical.

There’s 2 easy ones.

Stop being a fuckstick.

And to add (and I'm only guessing since I'm an outsider), the folks staring at NORAD screens 24/7, and I imagine we have a handful of fighters on rapid deployment status 24/7, with all of the flight and ground personnel it takes to make that happen. Add to that I doubt they can schedule long distance strategic and tactical lift flights to be all home before the street lights come on.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

And to add (and I'm only guessing since I'm an outsider), the folks staring at NORAD screens 24/7, and I imagine we have a handful of fighters on rapid deployment status 24/7, with all of the flight and ground personnel it takes to make that happen. Add to that I doubt they can schedule long distance strategic and tactical lift flights to be all home before the street lights come on.

You’re right, I generally mention the fleets I’m in/around daily.

Each RCAF Wing has people that are either on shift or call 24/7. The firehall never seems to get mentioned but they are a 24/7 org as well.

The Navy has RDS, Army has IRUs, SOF has IR etc. Then there’s the Ops/Battle staffs that are also at their stations.

 

[Furniture]

So do your court martial them if they are out drunk Friday night and not on DW and get called? Good luck. The CFLPM applies to all CAF members does it not?

In typical navy fashion, the "4 hours to respond" thing is a bit overstated.

If your ship is Ready Duty Ship, you will be on a short recall notice, and are expected to remain in the geographic area even when off duty on your weekend/evenings. Out West that essentially meant no trips to Nanaimo, or Port Renfrew, but anything short of that was fine.

Most ships are not RDS, so most sailors are not living under that sort of recall notice most of the time. Even if your ship is RDS, you just need to find a replacement if you need/want to travel outside the geographic area if your job is critical for sailing. As a 1 of 1, I just accepted that when my ship was RDS, I wasn't going shopping at Cabela's in Nanaimo, that was my greatest hardship from the recall notice.

 

[Quirky]

Jesus man. I’m glad I don’t work for you, and if this is the way you operate, be glad you don’t work for me. Seriously; you wouldn’t enjoy your informal PD very much.

Ok relax, Jesus. The only people who think the CAF is important is the CAF. The amount of leave people get is insane for the value we give Canadians. The entitlement is disgusting.

 

[Furniture]

Ok relax, Jesus. The only people who think the CAF is important is the CAF. The amount of leave people get is insane for the value we give Canadians. The entitlement is disgusting.

Not disgusting enough to cause you to leave the CAF though, just enough for you to treat your people with contempt, and act superior?

 

[OldSolduer]

Ok relax, Jesus. The only people who think the CAF is important is the CAF. The amount of leave people get is insane for the value we give Canadians. The entitlement is disgusting.

If you think it’s that bad maybe you should pull the pin.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

In typical navy fashion, the "4 hours to respond" thing is a bit overstated.

If your ship is Ready Duty Ship, you will be on a short recall notice, and are expected to remain in the geographic area even when off duty on your weekend/evenings. Out West that essentially meant no trips to Nanaimo, or Port Renfrew, but anything short of that was fine.

Most ships are not RDS, so most sailors are not living under that sort of recall notice most of the time. Even if your ship is RDS, you just need to find a replacement if you need/want to travel outside the geographic area if your job is critical for sailing. As a 1 of 1, I just accepted that when my ship was RDS, I wasn't going shopping at Cabela's in Nanaimo, that was my greatest hardship from the recall notice.

This sounds a lot like LRP Ready-XX crews on weekends and holidays.

When you weren’t on Ready crew on a weekend, there was no expectation to be recalled as there already was a duty crew assigned.

That to me is reasonable and part of military life. BUT…especially at the end of my op tour, if I wasn’t on Ready crew, good luck getting ahold of me on a rare non-standby weekend. And I made no apologies for that.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ok relax, Jesus. The only people who think the CAF is important is the CAF. The amount of leave people get is insane for the value we give Canadians. The entitlement is disgusting.

We get generous leave; I will agree to that BUT (there is a but) that only makes up for the lack of overtime pay even the RCMP can get.

So, if you take or have the potential to take more of CAF members’ time away their home and families, without compensation in terms of bonuses or OT pay, than I am 100% okay with the Shorts, Specials and NWDs that are part of CAF policy.

 

[brihard]

We don’t get overtime.

We get generous leave; I will agree to that BUT (there is a but) that only makes up for the lack of overtime pay even the RCMP can get.

So, if you take or have the potential to take more of CAF members’ time away their home and families, without compensation in terms of bonuses or OT pay, than I am 100% okay with the Shorts, Specials and NWDs that are part of CAF policy.

Ding ding ding. CAF has no other way to compensate extra work above a normal work week. It compensates with the one thing you absolutely cannot purchase: time.

A CAF member who hops over to work emergency services would have regular opportunities to work overtime and get paid for it at 1.5 or 2x their hourly rate of pay. And for NCMs, at least, that’s likely off a higher base salary. This is what CAF has to compete with.

 

[Good2Golf]

Ok relax, Jesus. The only people who think the CAF is important is the CAF. The amount of leave people get is insane for the value we give Canadians. The entitlement is disgusting.

So your experience in the civilian business world says five weeks of paid leave doesn’t happen?

 

[Quirky]

So your experience in the civilian business world says five weeks of paid leave doesn’t happen?

It does, but they probably earned it. A 23 year old kid with maybe a HS diploma who joined at 18? Good luck. Even if you think your annual leave entitlement isn’t enough, just say your day to day job is stressful and get unlimited stress time off. Business world would just fire you.

 

[Good2Golf]

It does, but they probably earned it.

So you realize that civilians do have cases where they get lots of leave…and decades of CAF service doesn’t earn a similar increase?

A 23 year old kid with maybe a HS diploma who joined at 18? Good luck. Even if you think your annual leave entitlement isn’t enough, just say your day to day job is stressful and get unlimited stress time off.

That kid doesn’t get five weeks leave.

Business world would just fire you.

Nope.

 

[Quirky]

So you realize that civilians do have cases where they get lots of leave…and decades of CAF service doesn’t earn a similar increase?

Decades? Maybe. 25 days off after showing up to work for your first 5 years, while that person is likely still very inexperienced? You’d be hard pressed to find it civy side.

 

[mariomike]

Business world would just fire you.

There was always Long Term Disability, or transfer to another department.

 

[Good2Golf]

Decades? Maybe. 25 days off after showing up to work for your first 5 years, while that person is likely still very inexperienced? You’d be hard pressed to find it civy side.

For a salaried job with the same company for 5-10 years, not difficult to find. Hourly-waged jobs perhaps not, but then again, the CAF isn’t an hourly wage employer.

 

[Journeyman]

If you think it’s that bad maybe you should pull the pin.

Idle curiousity, but is that an expression for releasing or......