Legal Status of ASP Batons

[Keltic]

Does anyone have any personal experience with Legalities on these in Canada or on tour?

???

 

[Slim]

Oh boy...Here it comes...

(prediction) the infantry guys will jump this first...Any takers?

 

[NavyGrunt]

Does anyone have any personal experience with Legalities on these in Canada or on tour?

???

You have no business with a collapsible baton. What do you want to know specifically? If I pull you over in Canada and you have one of these on you- you better have a good reason as to why you need it.

And if you needed one on "tour" you would be issued one.

I think you should fill out your profile so we know who we are talking to.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yes I do,  why?

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Issued to Boarding Teams as well.

 

[FormerEnlisted]

outside of Law Enforcement usage, these extendo's are illegal... although you can buy them down in Kensington market....

 

[FormerEnlisted]

I went into 'Save More' today after our parade to buy him a belt, and lo and behold they are selling those things by the dozen... they don't look like they are really that painful though....

 

[NavyGrunt]

I went into 'Save More' today after our parade to buy him a belt, and lo and behold they are selling those things by the dozen... they don't look like they are really that painful though....

At "save more"?  Im sure they are of excellent quality. If It doesnt look painful its not a proper baton.

 

[winchable]

Been reading the thread and googling this baton,
What exactly is it?
What are the physics of it, what makes it effective?
It looks like a telescopic cane or...poking device to me.
Is it like a nightstick?

 

[NavyGrunt]

Its a defense tool used by various law enforcement and security agencies(and the NBP's-calm down EX ;D). They come in various sizes from 13 inches on upto well over 30inches....with 21 inch extended being the most common. The physics are its locked in place and using centrifugal force it extends when swung and using a "friction lock" sticks in place. You strike meaty places(big muscles) and can use them on muscle tie-in area's....like joints(this is only for pressure points- the point isn't to break or cause permanent damage- its to control and stun, in lieu of digital tip pressure). More often than not its on used on limbs(the meaty parts) as it will easily break ribs and a blow to the head could kill someone. Depending on where you take the course you can also be taught to use it for pressure points. Its big and metal and hurts. Using it without proper training and care and consideration could hurt somebody reallllly bad.

Yes its like a collapsible night stick. But the full sized nightsticks are more effective....these batons are more convenient. Of course that depends on who you ask.....

Modded for clarity.....however its still a little muddled.....I try  :-\

 

[excoelis]

You strike places where muscles tie in....like joints etc.

Only if your a hired goon beating on a helpless little figure skater ;D

Depending on where you take the course you can also be taught to use it for pressure points.

When used as an intermediate weapon for striking, it is employed on large muscle masses or nerve motor points, in order to cause temporary motor dysfunction.  This will mitigate the risk of permanent injury while temporarily incapacitating an aggressor.  The touch pressure and quick penetration methods of employment can be used on pressure points in lieu of digital pressure, in order to achieve pain compliance.

The morale of the story is:

You may be able to buy one.  I believe it's illegal to carry anything that's sole purpose is that of a weapon.  If you haven't been officially trained and authorised to use it, you are subjecting yourself to serious legal repercussions.

I'm no expert, but I believe it would fall under aggravated assault or assault with a weapon, which are both indictable offenses.

Anyone in the law enforcement field care to clarify on the specifics or legality, so the troops don't inadvertently land themselves in jail?

 

[pappy]

almost had me going there for a second when you asked if "anyone had any experience" with these ASP's

They hurt very much in the hands of someone that knows how to use them....  I can atest to that, Ouch.... with a big O

They work well if YOU KNOW HOW TO USE THEM.  As with any weapon, you gatta know how to use it.

There legal here in Oregon, but not widely used.  But even that said like the one poster stated, you get pulled over with one and you've got some explaining to do.

 

[pappy]

..... in order to cause temporary motor dysfunction.   ....

lol I guess that's "Canadian" for "rings your bell"

The JP's (Japanese Police) used them quite effectively againest drunken Marines on Okinawa.....  Once they "tap you llightly" with one, you gain lots of respect.  Not that they needed these ASP's as to be a JP you have to be a Black Belt at the minimum.  The ASP's just keep ttheir uniforms looking nicer, as one to two taps and a 200lbs man will be on his knees

They leave nasty  lil odd shaped bruises...

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I will dig up the legalities tomorrow and post it tomorrow night.
What I can tell you from memory is that once you have been instructed by a certified instructor and are using it in the LAWFUL execution of your duties, [ie. what any prudent person would have done under the same circumstances]the company will send someone to defend any court procedings that could arise.

...They leave nasty  lil odd shaped bruises..........try poking yourself in the eye with the ball while returning it to the "loaded" position. :crybaby:

 

[qjdb]

it is employed on large muscle masses or nerve motor points, in order to cause temporary motor dysfunction

So, basically you create a big-@$$ charlie-horse?

Quentin

 

[Fusaki]

So, basically you create a big-@$$ charlie-horse?

Yes.

Believe it or not, you can shut down the use of both legs by striking a muscle mass on only one of them. I've heard of cases where bruises are left on both arms, even though only the right arm was struck. It has to do the fact that if you look at a diagram of the human nervous system, it is mirrored on either side of your body. This was described to me during a lecture on Koppojutsu, the element of Ninjutsu that deals with bone breaking a nerve manipulation. I think this also explains why damage to one eye, often leads to blindess in both.

 

[Keltic]

Aaron:   I was wondering is there are local classes on the proper use Asps. I don't have one, but I'd like to know if this would be feasible for use by Asp qualified medics for Personal Defence (Non-lethal application) while on Patrols?

 

[KevinB]

???
I made a reply ealier I guess it did not get through prior the crash.

#1 They are legal
#2 Aaron: please re-read your post.  

The CF does not recognise less lethal training undertaken outside the auspices of the CF.

Less-Lethal Baton training typically divides the body into red and blue zone area - the red areas are where seriosuly bodily harm will occur and possibly death - Red Zone strikes are considered lethal force.
If you are not issued a Baton by the CF don't get one.   WOW imagine me being the one to tell people to listen to a CF directive.   Medics are issued pistol in theatre and believe me if you think need a baton - you should rethink you use of force continuim...

Concealed Carry issues (civilian side) - This manner of carry of the baton either concealed on the person or concealed in a vehcile (i.e. under a seat) is illegal under the Criminal Code (I can get the subsectiosn if people want).   Open carry on person or vehcile is alright - however even open carry on a person can leave one open to charges for carrying a weapon to a public meeting or like charges.
  I went to get the section but it appears the Canadian Criminal Code is offline at the moment.

Cheers
Kevin

 

[NavyGrunt]

???
I made a reply earlier I guess it did not get through prior the crash.

#1 They are legal
#2 Aaron: you are without question an idiot, stop talking out of your *** on issues you have no knowledge or training in.  

Cheers
Kevin

Wow Kevin I've got a wall full of certificates that say that I know a fair bit about this. As for "red and blue zones" thats all new. I Couldnt tell you what the CF teaches for its baton training. I cant see why you think you know anything about this. I've been using and trained in them for years now. Feel free to attack any of my points and Ill back them up or retract.

First of all-Id like to know which of my information I stated makes me an "idiot". I'll take you on pound for pound on defense tactics anytime.  

I have asp certs/courses through PPCT/PSS systems as well as H.O.S.T. and the Basic Officer Safety Course through the Alberta Solicitor General staff college. Speed Cuffing, hand cuffing, locks, pressure points(digital/and mechanical) take downs, knife defense(bare hand, and again mechanical)

I've made dozens of arrests and controlled countless individuals with them.  He asked and I gave a warning and explained the principle. However to a lesser degree than others here (for simplicities sake).

*Modified for "Attitude"*

 

[NavyGrunt]

Not illegal per sae. You have to have a legitimate use. EMT's can carry. As well as some security companies. You need to be trained and have a reason to carry.

Lets play the "clarification issue"game . It is not illegal for you to buy a baton. Go ahead. Buy 5 if you feel the need. Without a proper tarining course the moment you use it you are in a world of crap. The criminal code allows you to defend yourself with enough force to repel an attack. that is the same amount of force coming against you- you can use in return. Unless everyone is wandering around with batons you are not covered. Being as you are not trained you might as well be walking around with a a lead pipe on your belt. You WILL be crap on for using it. Lots of bouncers carry them. Lots of EMT's. Lots of security guards. My old fire chief carried one( he used it on several occasions), police, and corrections. I have friends who have them for no good reason. It is not a restricted weapon.   But if you hit one you will get crapped on. Just like if I hit you with a bowl. Its assault.

if you have a question about the theory or use CIVIE side  I can comment- I cant comment on the CF side though.

*Modified for "attitude"*