Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[Lumber]

Perfect speech. I don't care about any hardships as long as the final direction is sound. Being willing to live with uncomfortable for a while to make long term improvements is pretty much a given in just about anything in life.

So then why were you so irate with the Liberal plans of the last decade? Some hardship for a brighter, cleaner, sunnier future?

 

[Remius]

And our agreement eleven years ago in 2014 to reach 2% defence spending is not worth the paper it was written on. Now more than ever it would have been important to have a properly funded and equiped military, and have the ability to provide cheap energy to those allies asking for it in lieu of Russian energy.

Or even before 2014. Don’t forget that Harper never came close to that either. That doesn’t matter to Trump as he has attacked countries who have. That’s not a real grievance.

No business case/climate zealotry and $10/daycare over defence were Canada's choices. Elbows up!

Yep. And we’ll continue to make our choice as a sovereign nation. Just less reliant on the US with a more diversified economic situation.

Now you think it's more prudent to shirk the US and seek more alignment with the Euros? Right, have fun with that one.

Sure. Europe right now certainly seems to be more reliable. No need to shirk the US. We just don’t need to get any closer and we just have to find other partners to build redundancy.

 

[QV]

Or even before 2014. Don’t forget that Harper never came close to that either. That doesn’t matter to Trump as he has attacked countries who have. That’s not a real grievance.

Yep. And we’ll continue to make our choice as a sovereign nation. Just less reliant on the US with a more diversified economic situation.

Sure. Europe right now certainly seems to be more reliable. No need to shirk the US. We just don’t need to get any closer and we just have to find other partners to build redundancy.

What other countries are responsible for defence of North America?

Canada's position within the EU would be even more muted and irrelevant than it's relations with the US. Just based on geography alone, then subtract the cultural differences. It would be a significant downgrade.

 

[Remius]

What other countries are responsible for defence of North America?

You mentioned the NATO 2%. NORAD is something else.

Feel free to watch. NORAD Commander gave his assessment and seems to be ok with that particular relationship.

Canada's position within the EU would be even more muted and irrelevant than its relations with the US. Just based on geography alone, then subtract the cultural differences. It would be a significant downgrade.

I’m not sure what you are arguing here exactky. What position within Europe are you talking about? by that logic we should not expand trade anywhere but with the US. More trade. More defence pacts. The US doesn’t want our stuff, then we should find markets that do.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm not talking policy, I'm talking direction. Do you think Jason Kenney would be entertaining any of this separatist stuff? Do you think it would have any life politically if the Right wing of the Wildrose Party hadn't co-opted the UCP? Groups like Take Back Alberta are funneled money by American religious interest groups who then push their agendas and portray it as "the grassroots". Here's a decent rundown by the National Observer.

The far-right’s takeover of the UCP is now complete

The membership of Alberta's United Conservative Party seems determined to drag the province back to the 1950s, and Premier Danielle Smith may not be able (or willing) to stop it. Just remember, Alberta conservatives: You wanted this.

www.nationalobserver.com

And that's just Alberta.

This is your quote:

Allowing the Religious ultra-Right to dictate policy has been a disaster for Conservatives continent-wide and I say that as a practicing Catholic. These evangelical pressure groups have been the Trojan Horse for all sorts of hijinks at the provincial and federal level. Unless the PCs and High Tories unite, they're never take their parties back from the likes of Jenni Bryne and Preston Manning.

I just want to know what CPC policy is being dictated by the Religious ultra-right wing ?

 

[PrairieFella]

This is your quote:



I just want to know what CPC policy is being dictated by the Religious ultra-right wing ?

That's a mischaracterization of my thoughts on my part. I meant moreso direction as I elaborated on.

 

[Halifax Tar]

That's a mischaracterization of my thoughts on my part. I meant moreso direction as I elaborated on.

Ok.

 

[RangerRay]

At what point does this because actual treason? Like actually, I'm curious on the legality of such.

The same reason all those implicated in helping Beijing or taking their side in our disputes with them weren’t charged with treason: the statute isn’t written that way.

 

[Halifax Tar]

At what point does this because actual treason? Like actually, I'm curious on the legality of such.

Never. Part of being in a free society means people have the right to leave too, democratically decided of course.

Canada, its system of gov, laws and legislation is just a social construct. It can be abandoned. That's why equal representation and patriotism are important in keeping the country functioning. We need people to buy into it.

Its the same reason we put up with Quebec and their secession movement.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The whole thing is going to put PP in awkward spot running in Alberta. No doubt he’ll be asked to weigh in on any Alberta referendum talk. How he handles it will be something that will stick nationally.

OR and hear me out here...

PP Doubles down, abandons his Central Canadian presence and goes full wexit con. Thus dismissing the CPC to opposition side of the house for as long as a Canada exists.

 

[brihard]

Never. Part of being in a free society means people have the right to leave too, democratically decided of course.

Canada, its system of gov, laws and legislation is just a social construct. It can be abandoned. That's why equal representation and patriotism are important in keeping the country functioning. We need people to buy into it.

Same logic applies to any First Nations who wish to remain a part of Canada should other parts of Alberta choose to separate. After all, the treaties predate the social construct known as “Alberta” that was legislated into existence. Those First Nations wouldn’t in any way be obligated to join an Alberta rump state in separating, nor to cede their lands or resources to the said Alberta separatist state. Without FNs and their lands partaking in such a separation, the economic calculus changes considerably.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Same logic applies to any First Nations who wish to remain a part of Canada should other parts of Alberta choose to separate. After all, the treaties predate the social construct known as “Alberta” that was legislated into existence. Those First Nations wouldn’t in any way be obligated to join an Alberta rump state in separating, nor to cede their lands or resources to the said Alberta separatist state. Without FNs and their lands partaking in such a separation, the economic calculus changes considerably.

You get no argument from me. The same applies to any province wishing to try its hand at succession.

But that's not what the @PrairieFella was asking.

At what point does this because actual treason? Like actually, I'm curious on the legality of such.

 

[IKnowNothing]

AKA having one’s cake and eating it too.

Kinda like self-identifying and taxing as rugged conservatives while spending and providing social services/ safety nets like socialists.

It's a house of cards propped up by O&G royalties, without a meaningful nest egg built up for "what comes next"

 

[PrairieFella]

Kinda like self-identifying and taxing as rugged conservatives while spending and providing social services/ safety nets like socialists.

It's a house of cards propped up by O&G royalties, without a meaningful nest egg built up for "what comes next"

To shift to this for a moment, this is probably the biggest fuckup Alberta has made in the past fifty years. The Heritage Fund was pilfered and other oil revenues were blown on freeways and corpo welfare. With some forethought they could have ended up like Norway with a wealth fund in the trillions. That said, Ottawa fucked this up equally, they should have been doing the same thing with some of the O&G revenue.

 

[brihard]

You get no argument from me. The same applies to any province wishing to try its hand at succession.

But that's not what the @PrairieFella was asking.

Oh I know. I just enjoy the tortured rationalizing of people who think that Alberta would have the unilateral right to secede from Canada, but that FNs with pre-existing treaties wouldn’t be just as free to decline to bring their people or lands along with them.

The same people who say that Canadian law is just made up, and that separatism could disregard it, don’t usually have an answer for the dependence big business has on the stable and predictable rule of law. Capital isn’t going to flock to develop expensive heavy oil in a legally and politically unstable jurisdiction.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Read up above a few threads of the history of these guys. They have pretty much been doing this in every by election since 2021 (ie before PP was leader).

They targeted Freeland and PP last election because they were high profile candidates.

I never heard of these guys before. You're right they've been going after a bunch of people not just Poilievre. Blood in the water is a good analogy.

 

[Remius]

Canadian exports to U.S. slump, but surge to other countries

Merchandise trade exports fell 0.2 per cent while imports were down 1.5 per cent, leaving Canada with a smaller-than-expected trade deficit of $506-million

www.theglobeandmail.com

More of this is needed.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Oh I know. I just enjoy the tortured rationalizing of people who think that Alberta would have the unilateral right to secede from Canada, but that FNs with pre-existing treaties wouldn’t be just as free to decline to bring their people or lands along with them.

Provinces do have the ability to leave. It's just not as simple as holding a vote and leaving.

You can't have a truly free society without providing an off ramp. It sounds counterintuitive, but we're supposed govern and managed the country in a way that doesn't promote secessionist movements, and the fact we now have another one shows we need better governance and management.

The same people who say that Canadian law is just made up, and that separatism could disregard it, don’t usually have an answer for the dependence big business has on the stable and predictable rule of law. Capital isn’t going to flock to develop expensive heavy oil in a legally and politically unstable jurisdiction.

Any societal structure be it Military, Gov or Big Business is all just a social construct that depends on the people within in and their willingness to abide by rules agreed upon en masse.

It's interesting when Que was going through a referendum I remember an outpouring of My Canada includes Que ect ect for some reason Alberta seems to be getting the opposite response and they haven't even decided to hold a referendum or not yet.

Does Canada actually want Alberta? Have we reached a point where Canada is now just a loosely linked confederation of regions with no real attachment to each other ? What exactly is Canada now ? These are questions I am pondering, I don't have answers.

I don't envy Mark Carney. He picked a hell of time to be PM.

 

[brihard]

Provinces do have the ability to leave. It's just not as simple as holding a vote and leaving.

You can't have a truly free society without providing an off ramp. It sounds counterintuitive, but we're supposed govern and managed the country in a way that doesn't promote secessionist movements, and the fact we now have another one shows we need better governance and management.



Any societal structure be it Military, Gov or Big Business is all just a social construct that depends on the people within in and their willingness to abide by rules agreed upon en masse.

It's interesting when Que was going through a referendum I remember an outpouring of My Canada includes Que ect ect for some reason Alberta seems to be getting the opposite response and they haven't even decided to hold a referendum or not yet.

Does Canada actually want Alberta? Have we reached a point where Canada is now just a loosely linked confederation of regions with no real attachment to each other ? What exactly is Canada now ? These are questions I am pondering, I don't have answers.

I don't envy Mark Carney. He picked a hell of time to be PM.

I think most Canadians with a brain want Alberta to be a part of the country. I think most Albertans do too.

It’s easy to forget that the Quebec referenda were a couple generations ago now. If they got back to seriously making those noises, most of us would probably give them the same eye roll we give Alberta separatists.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think most Canadians with a brain want Alberta to be a part of the country. I think most Albertans do too.

Then a referendum should nicely put this to sleep. And perhaps afterword's we can mend the confederation to be more representative of regions outside of Ont and Que.