Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[IKnowNothing]

You're outsourcing responsibility. If you recognize the option has serious negative aspects and choose it anyway, that trade off belongs to you. You can criticize the alternatives as much as you want, just don’t shift accountability for the consequences of your own vote onto the people who didn’t design a candidate you prefer.

You can own a decision as the best available while recognizing that it didn't have to be such- and holding those that left it that way accountable.

 

[Jarnhamar]

You can own a decision as the best available while recognizing that it didn't have to be such- and holding those that left it that way accountable.

Sure. You can argue the options could’ve been better, but once you knowingly choose one, you own the full outcome. “It didn’t have to be this way” doesn’t transfer responsibility for the consequences of your vote to someone else.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Sure. You can argue the options could’ve been better, but once you knowingly choose one, you own the full outcome. “It didn’t have to be this way” doesn’t transfer responsibility for the consequences of your vote to someone else.

Does a widespread feeling of "It didn't have to be this way" across a material portion of the electorate imbue responsibility for the consequence of all of those votes on those whose decisions led to losing them?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Does a widespread feeling of "It didn't have to be this way" across a material portion of the electorate imbue responsibility for the consequence of all of those votes on those whose decisions led to losing them?

I don't think so, no. Again, a widespread feeling doesn’t transfer responsibility, voters still make individual choices, and consequences flow from those choices. Not from the fact that people wish the options were different.

When you vote, do you vote for your local MP as a personality, "the party", or the parties leader?

 

[IKnowNothing]

I don't think so, no. Again, a widespread feeling doesn’t transfer responsibility, voters still make individual choices, and consequences flow from those choices. Not from the fact that people wish the options were different.

So ultimately, the leader of the losing party carries no responsibility for losing. "Vote for what we have on offer or piss off and be happy/ or not with the other options"

How does this apply to leadership elections? Do the members that voted in the losing horse then carry internal (to party) responsibility for the consequences of their choice in choosing a loser?

 

[Jarnhamar]

So ultimately, the leader of the losing party carries no responsibility for losing. "Vote for what we have on offer or piss off and be happy/ or not with the other options"

How does this apply to leadership elections? Do the members that voted in the losing horse then carry internal (to party) responsibility for the consequences of their choice in choosing a loser?

You missed my question.

 

[CBH99]

But I see nothing wrong with us going from 5% of our trade with China to 10% - if its managed accordingly.

As long as we are careful about how we proceed, and what we allow in terms of our relationship, Canada expanding trade with China can be a very good thing.

We don't export much in terms of refined goods, but we are blessed with plenty of natural resources & the industries to access them



We're walking one tight rope though, that's for sure

 

[IKnowNothing]

You missed my question.

It's a mix, with leader and party increasingly becoming the same thing. I never had a high opinion of PP, but Alex Ruff held my vote until the CPC colouring book platform betrayed just how unready Poilievre is to run a country

 

[Jarnhamar]

It's a mix

Broken down how?
50% local candidate personality and 50% party/leader?

How does this apply to leadership elections?

I haven't given it much thought, I was talking about voters. And trying to apply the same parameters doesn't work to me.

In a representative democracy politicians should vote in accordance with what the majority of their voters, who elected them info office, want. Instead politicians largely vote how they're told to vote by the party whip.

Is it the party whip fault that my MP votes how they're told to? No, my MP has a choice. They could chose to vote according to their voters and accept (or suffer) the consequences.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Broken down how?
50% local candidate personality and 50% party/leader?

Nothing so formal. Candidate is weighted pretty low for me unless they have some combo of:
-personal views that are closely in alignment with mine, to a higher degree than the party they represent
-a truly exceptional pre-political background
-a willingness to represent the best interest of their constituency in the face of party and/or voter friction
-caucus influence / status

I haven't given it much thought, I was talking about voters. And trying to apply the same parameters doesn't work to me.

Members that vote in leadership races are by definition voters- just a different scope of democratic contest. As to the bolded- of course it doesn't lol. How could the members that selected PP have any accountability for the loss when he himself doesn't?

 

[Jarnhamar]

How could the members that selected PP have any accountability for the loss when he himself doesn't?

I don't know, tell me.

Edit - Poilievre bad

 

[HavokFour]

Nanos shows similar, if the CPC drop below 30% that would be a disaster for the party

https://twitter.com/x/status/2026100035683791202

Another confirming the trend.

Liberals ascend to 13-point lead in vote intention as Canadians continue to demand hard line on U.S. trade - Angus Reid Institute

Just one-quarter say U.S. should be viewed as an ally or friend – a near 50-point drop from 2023 February 24, 2026 – As American President Donald Trump addresses the union this evening, Canadians may have some interest in the chosen topics, which will likely reference the Supreme Court’s recent...

angusreid.org

 

[Halifax Tar]

As usual a great listen.

A word of caution the talk on the DSI and Defence in general I think captures the Canadian attitude undertone.

They have a very traditional left leaning Canadian view on the DSI.

 

[HavokFour]

Seems like Carney may have a bigger role for Jeneroux in mind.

Jeneroux to join PM on trip to India, Japan and Australia

According to the delegation list shared by the PMO, Jeneroux is the only backbench MP participating in the trip.

www.ipolitics.ca

Mumbai and New Delhi, India

1. Hon. François-Philippe Champagne, Minister of Finance and National Revenue
2. Hon. Anita Anand, Minister of Foreign Affairs
3. Hon. David McGuinty, Minister of Defence

• Hon. Maninder Sidhu, Minister of International Trade
• MP Matt Jeneroux, Member of Parliament for Edmonton-Riverbend and special advisor on economic and security partnerships
• Premier Susan Holt, Premier of New Brunswick (Mumbai only)
• Premier Scott Moe, Premier of Saskatchewan (Mumbai and New Delhi)

Sydney and Canberra, Australia

1. Hon. François-Philippe Champagne, Minister of Finance and National Revenue
2. Hon. David McGuinty, Minister of National Defence

• MP Matt Jeneroux, special advisor on economic and security partnerships

Tokyo, Japan

1. Hon. David McGuinty, Minister of National Defence

• MP Matt Jeneroux, special advisor on economic and security partnerships

More to come…