I can’t speak to Montreal, but Ottawa would need to seriously unass local transportation to make getting to or from the HSR station, wherever it ends up, worthwhile. We’ll see a uniquely Ottawa experience of smoothly commuting from Montreal tor Peterborough to then get boned by LRT in the last 5km.
Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???
- Thread starter Altair
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Not at all. I'm nowhere near it and, at my age, will never ride it and my economy will not be effected by it. Just providing points. If my post seemed as a direct reply to you rather than the general discussion, I apologize.
Curious though; if a discussion surrounding a 'nation building project' is only to be restricted to those directly impacted, should navy matters be out of bounds to inlanders?
No doubt, landowners directly impacted by this, or any other public undertaking have a right to be pissed; I would be too.
Ottawa is uniquely stupid.
In 2007, I was newly posted to Ottawa. I actually decided I should be a good citizen and attend some public consultations on this. My first time doing anything like that.
Very first meeting. City engineer makes a 30 min long presentation on all the problems with a bus only system and the capacity constraints in the downtown core. Explains that without buried rail the city will face major traffic issues that threaten economic development. Very first question: "This is Ottawa. We're not Toronto or Montreal. Why do we need a subway?". Oy Vey.
Next consultation. They bring in a whole bunch of foreign companies. Japanese engineer from Kinkisharyo (Japanese train OEM) explains that Ottawa is doing this wrong. He explains that the climate, population and other conditions means that an actual subway would be better. He explains that the speed were would run at is more suited to heavier trains and likewise with the snow. Explains that they have similar experiences elsewhere in the world and a light Metro would work in Ottawa.
The city then decides they'll try to build a subway like system using trams that will run on the street in the suburbs. The VIA bus crash happens in Barrhaven. They cancel all the street running in the suburbs. But keep the trams. Everything that Japanese engineer said would happen did.
Oh and the best part? Montreal spent a few percent more per Km to build the REM. A system that is fully automated, with fully enclosed climate controlled stations.
I'm not sure why this country is so allergic to learning from the rest of the world. Sometimes even from the city next door.
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"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."
Me and a guy swapped jobs last year. He lives in Stittsville. I live near Montfort hospital. Naturally this means I commute to Carling and he commutes to Coventry now. I'm sure both of us spending 30-45 mins in traffic each way is meeting the government's climate goals....
I loved walking and biking to work. And routinely volunteered to stay later when necessary to support those who gotta run out for daycare pickup. Now I'm in the latter group.
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Years ago I lived downtown and worked at 101. A 15 minute walk to work if I stopped for coffee en route.
Quirky
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Refreshing listening to someone give direct answers without endless uhhh uhh uhh ummmm uhhh endless hand waving uhh uhh uhh between world salads of non answers.
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This feels a bit gratuitous. When you get to the endzone, try and look like you have been there before. Graciousness is a useful skill, or so I have been told.
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Halifax Tar
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Accepted. You did quote me.
Again, I am not against this project. Like said to @ytz I'm really happy you're excited and I hope it all works out.
I can simply empathize with rural landowners who will have their property expropriated. Sucks. People generally don't live rural to be next to HSR.
Our family hunting camp is east of Kaladar just on the south side of 7. Sort of between Kaladar and Arden. I suspect some of that may be affected. But I don't hunt there anymore, living in NS and all. I will be waiting to hear what the family says.
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If there are other projects totaling the same cost that could uplift GDP by more (say, 1.2%), then sinking that money into HSR (given above estimated 1.1%) will be a net loss of 0.1%.
I do not contend that HSR will be a dead loss. I do contend it might be a relative loss.
It also doesn't do much to regionally diversify Canada's economy or spread risks among multiple projects. It represents a lot of eggs in one proposed basket.
Opportunity cost.
Halifax Tar
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The trees actually have to get planted though.
Indeed, opportunity cost. Would suck if some of the high income seniors in this country can't get beer money anymore.
MilEME09
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best we can do is have the RCR paint some rocks for you
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I was in Sydney Australia recently and was amazed at how they had addressed part of the mass transit challenges.
1. Very clear and efficient toll highway system of which significant portions are tunnels. 3 lanes each direction built to shorten routes via underground access. 45 min cab ride from the airport gate to our hotel vs. 1.5 hour above ground public road
2. Multi-track rail corridor. Some stations are 5 wide tracks...passenger traffic tends to be the outer-most line allowing for stops at stations - route specific as most stop ~ every second station. Center lanes are for through traffic which includes the big freight trains coming through. But the transit system allows a person to go almost 200 km away inland for about $25 each way...not a bad gig for an hour and half train ride to city center/harbor front.
Almost all the train traffic is above ground - makes sense when looking at tunnel costs - and appears to have been built in partnership with the original railway lines. But even where old sidings and rail sheds have been decommissioned they have upgraded some sites into bus service centers and/or car parks for transit users....investments into a system rather than ad hoc changes.
While the weather is one factor I do think there are many factors that would be a solution for Canadian cities but would need to look into alot of different municipal and federal train regulations to understand better.
A map of the toll system for comparision:About Sydney toll roads - Linkt
1. Very clear and efficient toll highway system of which significant portions are tunnels. 3 lanes each direction built to shorten routes via underground access. 45 min cab ride from the airport gate to our hotel vs. 1.5 hour above ground public road
2. Multi-track rail corridor. Some stations are 5 wide tracks...passenger traffic tends to be the outer-most line allowing for stops at stations - route specific as most stop ~ every second station. Center lanes are for through traffic which includes the big freight trains coming through. But the transit system allows a person to go almost 200 km away inland for about $25 each way...not a bad gig for an hour and half train ride to city center/harbor front.
Almost all the train traffic is above ground - makes sense when looking at tunnel costs - and appears to have been built in partnership with the original railway lines. But even where old sidings and rail sheds have been decommissioned they have upgraded some sites into bus service centers and/or car parks for transit users....investments into a system rather than ad hoc changes.
While the weather is one factor I do think there are many factors that would be a solution for Canadian cities but would need to look into alot of different municipal and federal train regulations to understand better.
A map of the toll system for comparision:About Sydney toll roads - Linkt
D
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Why let those pesky serfs that do things with their hands have increased freedom of choice and reduced commuting friction eh?
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