Looking for info on Battle of Fish Creek or Gunner william Cook
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Drylander
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What do you need to know gunner - I live about 30 clicks from the Fish Creek Battle site.
Drylander
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Hello Gunner
I have a decent knowledge of the North West Rebellion and conduct battle field tours of the sites including Fish Creek. I have done a fair amount of research on the various engagements. What I can tell you is that there was a Gunner William Cook who was part of A Battery Royal Canadian Artillery. The nominal roll for that Unit shows that Gunner Cook was killed in action at the Battle of Fish Creek. The following is brief description of the conduct of the Battle of Fish creek. I have walked the ground a number of times and know the site where Gunner Cook would have been killed.
On the morning of April 24th, 1885 the eastern column of Gen Middleton's force was moving along the east side of the South Saskatchewan River. "A Battery" was part of this column. Gen Middleton had put forward both mounted and dismounted scouts from the unit commanded by Major Boulton ( Boulton wrote one of the most accurate accounts of the actions of the Middleton Field Force "Reminiscences of the NorthWest Rebellion" 1886). The columns had marched 18 miles from Clarkes Crossing just north of Saskatoon. On the morning of the 24th they were on the move at 6:30 a.m. The ground that the column was moving over was fairly open, rolling hills and some effects of agriculture. The South Sask River was on their left flank. As the scouts moved forward they saw signs of the activities of the Metis Forces. Local farm houses had been raided for food and the scouts found evidence of the a recent encampment.
Ground: The columns was moving astride a trail that ran from Gabriel Crossing to Clarkes Crossing. This trail connected the key ferry crossing points across the river. As the scouts moved forward they observed a coulee (gully with a 10 foot wide stream and at most 4 feet deep that winds through it, a series of S curves) and Rebel forces in the coulee. The rebel forces opened fire on the scouts from the east side of the coulee and the battle began.
Imagine a 2000 yard gully dissected by the trail (East-West) that crossed over the creek using a primitive log bridge the embankments are about 100 meters high but have a manageable gradual slope. The approach on either side of the coulee was open ground in the form of plateaus. Middleton's Column was on the West side and took up positions on the bluffs above the coulee. The Rebels were on the East side using the natural brush cover down by the stream and up on the Eastern plateau. The West plateau is slightly higher than the East Plateau.
Force Disposition: On contact Boulton's Scouts didn't pursue the Rebel forces into the coulee but rather went to ground and returned fire. In addition Boulton sent back riders to Middleton to provide a Situation Report. Middleton moved his forces up and the two sides were disposed as follows:
Middleton Column West Side of Fish Creek
- Infantry School Corps (forerunner to the RCR) and Coy of the 90th Winnipeg Rifles on the North side of the ferry trail
- A Battery , B Coy of the 90th Rifles and Boulton's Scouts on the South side of the trail.
Rebel Forces East Side of Fish Creek
- White Cap Teton Sioux North Side of the trail up on the plateau
- Metis Forces South Side of the trail down in the Coulee and up on the plateau.
The battle commenced in earnest at 10:00 am Middleton didn't commit his forces into the gully but rather had them engage the Rebels fro distances of 50 - 100 yards across the creek. He called up to guns from A Battery and had them fire into gully. The challenge the gunners had was in depressing the guns low enough so that they could fire into the lower banks of the coulee. The Rebel forces lived off the land and were used to killing game both stationary and on the move therefore they were better marksman. The gun crews were static targets at this range and it was at this point that Gunner Cook was more than likely killed. There was a field sketch done by "Captain Haig Royal Engineer" of the battlefield that shows that Gunner Cook was killed along with Pte Wheeler very close to the creek on the forward slope.
Neither side moved forward in any aggressive way but were content to fire on each other from deployed firing positions over a wide frontage up and down the creek. There were limited attempts to either advance over the creek or conduct flanking attacks but to little affect. Gunner Cook was killed in one of the attempts to advance forward over the creek. At this stage in the battle he along with other members of the battery were fighting dismounted along side the Infantry of the 90th Rifles. As the battle progressed the Metis using the natural cover and the their knowledge of the ground tried to outflank Middleton. They tried to screen their movements and create panic by starting brush fires to smoke of their attempted flankings. A number of the Metis withdraw on order North to Batoche in order to prepare for a defense of their homes.
At about 4:30 p.m. the battle drew to a close with the withdrawal of the Metis to Batoche.
AAR: Middleton's forces had suffered 6 KIA and 49 WIA out of 350 pers engaged in the battle. The Metis had 4 KIA and 1 WIA but lost over 50 horses that re-stricted their future mobility. The end result was that Middleton consolidated all of this forces on the East side of the South Saskatchewan River and stopped their advance for another 2 weeks thus giving the Metis Forces time to prepare defending positions in and around the town of Batoche.
Hopes this account helps.
Regards
CArrow
I have a decent knowledge of the North West Rebellion and conduct battle field tours of the sites including Fish Creek. I have done a fair amount of research on the various engagements. What I can tell you is that there was a Gunner William Cook who was part of A Battery Royal Canadian Artillery. The nominal roll for that Unit shows that Gunner Cook was killed in action at the Battle of Fish Creek. The following is brief description of the conduct of the Battle of Fish creek. I have walked the ground a number of times and know the site where Gunner Cook would have been killed.
On the morning of April 24th, 1885 the eastern column of Gen Middleton's force was moving along the east side of the South Saskatchewan River. "A Battery" was part of this column. Gen Middleton had put forward both mounted and dismounted scouts from the unit commanded by Major Boulton ( Boulton wrote one of the most accurate accounts of the actions of the Middleton Field Force "Reminiscences of the NorthWest Rebellion" 1886). The columns had marched 18 miles from Clarkes Crossing just north of Saskatoon. On the morning of the 24th they were on the move at 6:30 a.m. The ground that the column was moving over was fairly open, rolling hills and some effects of agriculture. The South Sask River was on their left flank. As the scouts moved forward they saw signs of the activities of the Metis Forces. Local farm houses had been raided for food and the scouts found evidence of the a recent encampment.
Ground: The columns was moving astride a trail that ran from Gabriel Crossing to Clarkes Crossing. This trail connected the key ferry crossing points across the river. As the scouts moved forward they observed a coulee (gully with a 10 foot wide stream and at most 4 feet deep that winds through it, a series of S curves) and Rebel forces in the coulee. The rebel forces opened fire on the scouts from the east side of the coulee and the battle began.
Imagine a 2000 yard gully dissected by the trail (East-West) that crossed over the creek using a primitive log bridge the embankments are about 100 meters high but have a manageable gradual slope. The approach on either side of the coulee was open ground in the form of plateaus. Middleton's Column was on the West side and took up positions on the bluffs above the coulee. The Rebels were on the East side using the natural brush cover down by the stream and up on the Eastern plateau. The West plateau is slightly higher than the East Plateau.
Force Disposition: On contact Boulton's Scouts didn't pursue the Rebel forces into the coulee but rather went to ground and returned fire. In addition Boulton sent back riders to Middleton to provide a Situation Report. Middleton moved his forces up and the two sides were disposed as follows:
Middleton Column West Side of Fish Creek
- Infantry School Corps (forerunner to the RCR) and Coy of the 90th Winnipeg Rifles on the North side of the ferry trail
- A Battery , B Coy of the 90th Rifles and Boulton's Scouts on the South side of the trail.
Rebel Forces East Side of Fish Creek
- White Cap Teton Sioux North Side of the trail up on the plateau
- Metis Forces South Side of the trail down in the Coulee and up on the plateau.
The battle commenced in earnest at 10:00 am Middleton didn't commit his forces into the gully but rather had them engage the Rebels fro distances of 50 - 100 yards across the creek. He called up to guns from A Battery and had them fire into gully. The challenge the gunners had was in depressing the guns low enough so that they could fire into the lower banks of the coulee. The Rebel forces lived off the land and were used to killing game both stationary and on the move therefore they were better marksman. The gun crews were static targets at this range and it was at this point that Gunner Cook was more than likely killed. There was a field sketch done by "Captain Haig Royal Engineer" of the battlefield that shows that Gunner Cook was killed along with Pte Wheeler very close to the creek on the forward slope.
Neither side moved forward in any aggressive way but were content to fire on each other from deployed firing positions over a wide frontage up and down the creek. There were limited attempts to either advance over the creek or conduct flanking attacks but to little affect. Gunner Cook was killed in one of the attempts to advance forward over the creek. At this stage in the battle he along with other members of the battery were fighting dismounted along side the Infantry of the 90th Rifles. As the battle progressed the Metis using the natural cover and the their knowledge of the ground tried to outflank Middleton. They tried to screen their movements and create panic by starting brush fires to smoke of their attempted flankings. A number of the Metis withdraw on order North to Batoche in order to prepare for a defense of their homes.
At about 4:30 p.m. the battle drew to a close with the withdrawal of the Metis to Batoche.
AAR: Middleton's forces had suffered 6 KIA and 49 WIA out of 350 pers engaged in the battle. The Metis had 4 KIA and 1 WIA but lost over 50 horses that re-stricted their future mobility. The end result was that Middleton consolidated all of this forces on the East side of the South Saskatchewan River and stopped their advance for another 2 weeks thus giving the Metis Forces time to prepare defending positions in and around the town of Batoche.
Hopes this account helps.
Regards
CArrow
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Carrow,
Welcome to army.ca, nice first post, very informative.
Welcome to army.ca, nice first post, very informative.
Michael Dorosh
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Good post, Carrow.
You left out the part about William Shatner as the carnival barker though.
Whenever I think of the terrific job Dave Thomas and Leslie Nielsen did putting down that rebellion....**sniff**....brings a tear to me eye every time....
Fish Creek is one of those "local" battlefields I do hope to visit someday, along with the Greasy Grass down in Montana....I hope I have a guide as obviously knowledgeable as you should I ever make it that far east...
You left out the part about William Shatner as the carnival barker though.
Whenever I think of the terrific job Dave Thomas and Leslie Nielsen did putting down that rebellion....**sniff**....brings a tear to me eye every time....
Fish Creek is one of those "local" battlefields I do hope to visit someday, along with the Greasy Grass down in Montana....I hope I have a guide as obviously knowledgeable as you should I ever make it that far east...
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Hi DStaff
Thanks for the feedback. Fish Creek is also interesting as it was the first time that War Photography was used in Canada, the first photos taken by Capt Peters. The Greasy Grass is worth going to from the perspective of trying to figure out how if you were Custer how would have have tried to conduct the initial attack and then how should or could you have conducted the defense. I have been there a couple of times and learn something from the ground everytime just like Fish Creek.
Regards
CArrow
Thanks for the feedback. Fish Creek is also interesting as it was the first time that War Photography was used in Canada, the first photos taken by Capt Peters. The Greasy Grass is worth going to from the perspective of trying to figure out how if you were Custer how would have have tried to conduct the initial attack and then how should or could you have conducted the defense. I have been there a couple of times and learn something from the ground everytime just like Fish Creek.
Regards
CArrow
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Hi Shec
Beal's book is not bad like most recent accounts it provides an overview and only some selected detail. Beal went on to put out another book co-authored with Rudy Wiebe "War in the West Voices of the 1885 Rebellion". This is also a good publication in that it is a compliation of original accounts through interviews with veterans from both sides. Desmond Morton also put out a book in 1972 "The Last War Drum" which is good as well in that it has many of the first photos taken by Capt Peters. Usually most 1885 Rebellion books focus on Batoche but the Last War Drum provides photos of the march up to Batoche as well. Another good read is By Douglas Light "Footprints in the Dust" published in 1987 that has even further personal accounts as Doug Light was a local historian in the Battlefords area where many of those who participated in the CutKnife Hill battle came from.
Regards
CArrow
Beal's book is not bad like most recent accounts it provides an overview and only some selected detail. Beal went on to put out another book co-authored with Rudy Wiebe "War in the West Voices of the 1885 Rebellion". This is also a good publication in that it is a compliation of original accounts through interviews with veterans from both sides. Desmond Morton also put out a book in 1972 "The Last War Drum" which is good as well in that it has many of the first photos taken by Capt Peters. Usually most 1885 Rebellion books focus on Batoche but the Last War Drum provides photos of the march up to Batoche as well. Another good read is By Douglas Light "Footprints in the Dust" published in 1987 that has even further personal accounts as Doug Light was a local historian in the Battlefords area where many of those who participated in the CutKnife Hill battle came from.
Regards
CArrow
R
Reg Volk
Guest
Guinner Wiiliam Cook is also mentioned in Boulton's book "Reminiscences of the North West Rebellion"
Personally, I am trying to find out about the role of the 10th Royal Grenadiers. Boulton's book shows them arriving from the other side of the river about 1 pm and relieving some positions. Other books say they were not involved but I have a list of at least 4 wounded/injured from the 10th at Fish Creek . Anyone out there have definitive info??
Personally, I am trying to find out about the role of the 10th Royal Grenadiers. Boulton's book shows them arriving from the other side of the river about 1 pm and relieving some positions. Other books say they were not involved but I have a list of at least 4 wounded/injured from the 10th at Fish Creek . Anyone out there have definitive info??
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Hello Reg
I have used Boulton's book extensively as it has some of the best maps. In addition to his description of the role of the 10th I also own a copy of General Middleton's book written a few years after the Rebellion "Suppression of the Rebellion in the North West Territories of Canada 1885. In his book General Middleton describes how he tasked the 10th as part of Lord Melgund's column to cross the river a few days before the fight at Fish Creek. On page 37 he describes the arrival of Lord Melgund on the East side of the river during the height of the Battle at Fish Creek " As already stated the first to arrive was Melgund himself with a company of the 10th Grenadiers, and Fiennes of French's Scouts, as orderly officer, having guided to the scene of the operations by Captain Hiag. In superintending the extension of this company Melgund was very nearly potted by a shot from a long range rifle, of which the rebels had several, and Fienne's horse was killed by a shot from the same spot as he was returning from carrying an order. Later on came more companies of the Grenadiers under Lieutenant-Colonel Grasett and the two guns under Major Jarvis".
At the end of the Battle as the Middleton's columns moved down to the river to form a defensive Biv site for the night, the 10th remained on the West side of the Coulee overlooking Fish Creek as a rear guard. As the 10th was about to move off to the Biv site themselves a mounted group of Rebells appeared. In response LCol Grasett order the 10th to about face and advance on the Rebels who promptly withdrew.
Hopes that answers your question.
Regards
CArrow
I have used Boulton's book extensively as it has some of the best maps. In addition to his description of the role of the 10th I also own a copy of General Middleton's book written a few years after the Rebellion "Suppression of the Rebellion in the North West Territories of Canada 1885. In his book General Middleton describes how he tasked the 10th as part of Lord Melgund's column to cross the river a few days before the fight at Fish Creek. On page 37 he describes the arrival of Lord Melgund on the East side of the river during the height of the Battle at Fish Creek " As already stated the first to arrive was Melgund himself with a company of the 10th Grenadiers, and Fiennes of French's Scouts, as orderly officer, having guided to the scene of the operations by Captain Hiag. In superintending the extension of this company Melgund was very nearly potted by a shot from a long range rifle, of which the rebels had several, and Fienne's horse was killed by a shot from the same spot as he was returning from carrying an order. Later on came more companies of the Grenadiers under Lieutenant-Colonel Grasett and the two guns under Major Jarvis".
At the end of the Battle as the Middleton's columns moved down to the river to form a defensive Biv site for the night, the 10th remained on the West side of the Coulee overlooking Fish Creek as a rear guard. As the 10th was about to move off to the Biv site themselves a mounted group of Rebells appeared. In response LCol Grasett order the 10th to about face and advance on the Rebels who promptly withdrew.
Hopes that answers your question.
Regards
CArrow
R
Reg Volk
Guest
Well, this is interesting because I have a page 362 from a book that I don't know the source. It is in French and it lists 4 Royal Grenadiers as being wounded at Fish Creek. Another source lists one of them as killed. They don't appear in the battle of Batoche lists but are on General Boulton's lists. They are J.Cane (Killed); J.Gray, P.J. Reggin and J.Billingham (wounded). Do you have anything specific?
I am trying to get the surgeon's lists from the National Archives.
(P.J. Reggin is my grandfather.)
Reg
I am trying to get the surgeon's lists from the National Archives.
(P.J. Reggin is my grandfather.)
Reg
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