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Major-General Lewis MacKenzie CM, MSC, OOnt, CD

Would Maj Gen MacKenzie have made a good CDS.


  • Total voters
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The smart way to win this war is to cut the legs out from under the bad guys
(i.e. denying them any support from the locals, similar to Malaya).
Just curious sir, from your experience in the region, how would you say the best way of going about this would be.

I have a hard time drawing parallels to Malaya because it seems easier to sell democracy over communism rather than democracy over tribalism. As well, what do you do when the biggest threat to stability is a feudal warlord embedded within the local populace rather than ethnic Chinese recieving help from outside.

Am I correct, or am I out to lunch?
 
Well, it‘ll be democracy vs. Islamic fundamentalism and religion has very strong hold on a population, especially in third world countries.
 
I‘m not sure about that. There was alot of opposition to the Taliban. Religion meant a rats *** to all the warlords when the ruling Islamic tribe happened to be Pushtuns from the south.
 
Tired old arguement? Maybe so, because it‘s the truth. Ok most reserve units work say a thursday night and 1-2 weekends per month. The rest of the time those ppl are in school or at a civilian job or collecting EI. I only speak the truth, as far as the summer goes ppl are away on courses and taskings to train new ppl.In the reserves ppl come and go so often that the summers are really busy to fill the gaps. I think that a platoon from every reserve unit would need at least 6 months of work up training. Especially if it‘s gonna have to be fighting in a real war.
 
Whether the reserves have a current deployable status or not shouldn‘t be the question. What are the reserves for if they can‘t deploy to a combat zone? If the militia is just a domestic help line for national/provincial emergencies, we may as well turn in all our weapons. This speaks to reservists as well who haven‘t considered the fact that some day they may have to deploy. For the scenario mentioned of deploying a reserve contingent, obviously a period of group training and qualification would be necessary but this by no means a foreign concept. As reservists, we already have a 5 month workup for Bosnia, so cut out the bs of that workup and add more grunt work.
 
If each reserve infantry battalion were to commit a platoon, it would have to commit a platoon commander, platoon WO, and three each section commander and 2I/C. Presumably these will all be people with time available, or ability to make the time.

After that happens, and while it is being sustained, what do you think are the odds of your BMQ / SQ / MOC / PCF / PLQ etc being cancelled summer after summer due to lack of instructors?

From where I sit, I think we need to put some serious undiverted effort into ensuring our reserve training system is completely capable of sustaining any reserve commitments we intend to make.
 
hey infanteer my point is we need to be ready for anything from suicide bombers to an all out fight.we got to have the men,gear and means to handle that.helpen to rebuild the infastructure is a major priority,winnin hearts and minds is also good.comin home in one peice is numero uno baby..and as for big lou i always respect a man who is NOT politically correct.oh yeah,about researchin the russians it doesnt matter how many wer there,they still got there asses kicked by men in caves....right or wrong,infanteer bye
ps.which battalion you with,i was with 1rcr( dont worry im not into stalkin ya im just lookin for some old buds of mine)haha
 
hey infanteer my point is we need to be ready for anything from suicide bombers to an all out fight
With the limited resources we have, we must focus on what is necessary, not the entire spectrum of conflict.

yeah,about researchin the russians it doesnt matter how many wer there,they still got there asses kicked by men in caves....right or wrong,
I thinked you missed my point. The Coalition only has 2 Brigades max in country, ISAF in Kabul and an American one in Bagram. The Russians had 100,000 soldiers in Afghanistan, and yet "got there asses kicked by men in caves".

Is our force commitment and posture wise based on this compelling evidence you have provided? That is what I wanted you to come back with.

ps.which battalion you with,i was with 1rcr( dont worry im not into stalkin ya im just lookin for some old buds of mine)haha
Nope, I‘m a western guy...can‘t help you there.
 
All I‘m saying is what your asking will never happen unless their is a big war going on.Then the canadian people would have to decide to send in the reserves or whatever. Anyways that day has‘nt come yet and I hope it never does.
 
All I‘m saying is what your asking will never happen unless their is a big war going on
Well, that‘s not the right additude. Do you think wars of the future will give us three years to mobilize the militia? We must work on ensuring the militia doesn‘t become the second-rate farm team to the regular force that it is on the way to becoming.
 
The man-power arguement is irrelevant as I doubt there will be the political will to carry on such a mission. The government has been preaching that we are â Å“peacekeepersâ ? rather than war fighters and the rest of the country believes it. Without a change in opinion and the political will, we will remain what we are; an under-funded branch of Canada Inc.
 
It‘s spelled attitude, and another recce man your absolutely right.
 
i see what youre sayin now infanter;and another recce guy summed it up pretty good.catch ya on the next engagement....(OF WORDS)HAHA
 
The effects of Political correctness on Canada's military.
Training isn't the problem
Politics, not a lack of skills, is why our troops are leaving Kabul
 
Lewis MacKenzie
The Ottawa Citizen
Friday, June 25, 2004


Canada turned down a U.S. request last week to extend the tour of our 2,000 soldiers in Kabul until the fall so they could provide a rapid-reaction force during the Afghan elections in September. It's necessary to have such a force on standby to move throughout Afghanistan to deal with the inevitable attempts by terrorists and certain warlords to interfere with the democratic process.

Unfortunately, it was left to a junior Defence department spokesman to explain why Canada would not agree to the U.S. request: "What the Americans are looking for is not exactly what our troops are trained for."

This need not have been such a highly embarrassing admission, as it is blatantly untrue. There are reasons why our contingent is incapable of taking on such a role, but it has nothing to do with a lack of training. On the contrary, they are the best-trained troops for such a mission in the multinational force.

In 2001, immediately following the 9/11 attacks, then-prime minister Jean Chretien pledged that we would stand shoulder-to-shoulder with our U.S. friends in the war on terror, starting with the dispatch of the 3rd battalion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry to join the U.S. brigade operating out of Kandahar.

Unfortunately, he neglected to tell President George W. Bush that we would only be with them for six months. As the alarm went off indicating the six months were up, he brought the battalion home, indicating that we did not have the resources to replace or extend the 800 soldiers.

Yet a few months later, when it looked like the U.S. was going to intervene in Iraq and Canada would be asked to participate, Mr. Chretien ordered 4,000 soldiers (2,000 per six-month mission) to serve with the International Security Assistance Force in Kabul for a year. Magically, the soldiers were found (and conveniently the shelves were emptied for any potential Canadian contribution to Iraq).

Canada would not be directly involved in the war on terror, but would contribute to the establishment of some degree of security in and around Kabul. This would help Afghan President Hamid Karzai and his government survive, at least in the capital, as his movements outside of Kabul are few and far between due to the risks involved.

Regrettably, a considerable degree of inflexibility was built into the organization of the Canadian contingent and a very un-Canadian solution was chosen. It was decided that the soldiers would live in a large encampment with creature comforts previously unknown and deemed unnecessary on other missions -- Internet cafe, exercise tents, individual living compartments, a sewer and water system, extensive air-conditioning, etc.

Despite the fact that Afghani-stan qualified as an operational theatre, civilian contractors were brought in to run the logistics support system for the soldiers. Meals, accommodation, ammunition control, overall maintenance of vehicles and equipment were all centralized in a static civilian component that could not deploy outside of Kabul.

Erroneously assuming that the Canadian mission to Afghanistan would not change and that the umbilical cord to the civilian supply system would always be available, the infantry battalion was required to leave behind in Canada its own internal supply capability provided by its service support company -- which normally provides the services offered by the civilian contractors in a more austere manner, but is considerably more flexible and mobile and can deploy into high-risk areas.

I can appreciate that our government might not want to respond positively to the recent U.S. request. To do so would mean that we would take on an expanded role that would see our soldiers move throughout Afghanistan during the election process to confront any attempts to interfere with the democratic process. Any increased support for the United States during the current election would be seen as a negative for the government, given its anti-U.S. Iraq policy rhetoric.

When National Defence was told to come up with an excuse for our not agreeing to the U.S. request for us to rejoin the war against terror, the response should not have been that our troops were not trained for such a role. An honest -- but politically unacceptable -- response would have gone something like this:

"Sorry, the need to find more savings in our defence budget forced us to contract out the logistics support for our soldiers to a static civilian organization and that restricts them to operations less than 70 kilometres from Kabul. We also have a massive administration and security overhead in Kabul, which means that out of our 2,000 personnel, only about 300 are available for taking any potential fight to the enemy. That reality is extremely unfortunate because the 3rd Battalion Royal 22 Regiment soldiers in their light infantry role would be as good as any elite unit in the world at tracking down and eliminating the terrorists who would threaten the election process and the security of Afghanistan. They spend most of their time training for such a task and would prefer it to patrolling the streets of Kabul."

The lessons we can learn from this are: (1) we should think of our soldiers' morale and pride when politically correct excuses are made for all the world to see; and, (2) we should not fool around with the well-proven organization of an infantry battalion on the assumption that a particular role in a particular mission area will not change. It will, as it should but can't in Afghanistan.

Lewis MacKenzie is a retired major-general in the Canadian Forces.
 
This serves to highlight one of the major problems in our Forces.

Our very own NDHQ is so politically orientated, that they are simply disgusting.

This is supposed to be OUR LEADERS!

Bunch of spineless a**holes.

A major shakeup HAS to be done at NDHQ, and get rid of that idiot Henault and all of his lapdogs, and place some real leaders in command of the fine men and women that serve our nation.
 
While I appreciate him standing up for our troops like that, what we really need is for CURRENT leaders to stand up to stuff like this. The quote about the soldiers not being trained for what was needed came from a defence spokesperson, probably a jr bureaucrat I would assume. Why on earth does our military tolerate such politically motivated bs (this being but a small example)? Isn't the whole point of having senior officers so that military matters can be handled by military personnel rather than paper pushers? Sometimes it feels like we might as well just cut off rank progression at Col and fill all the top brass spots with civil servants to save on the cost of gold thread.   :akimbo:

(perhaps a bit more bitter than I need to be due to being woken up almost three hours early for no reason)
 
The last time the senior generals and admirals in this country stood up for doing the right thing was during the Cuban Missile crisis. Some admirals defied Diefenbaker's orders to do nothing, saw that the Soviets were deploying submarines to threaten shipping off the East Coast of North America, and put the Atlantic fleet on high alert. They even deployed a carrier battlegroup to protect the US East Coast.

The defence minister at the time (Harkness?) then quietly put the whole military on alert.

The Liberals were in opposition at this time, and believe it, they noticed the initiative taken by the admirals.

When they later formed a government, they took action to ensure that the military leadership in this country would never go against political direction again. This action was carried out by a guy named Paul Hellyer - unification. Stripped of their tradition and their pride in their service identities, and with the civilian DND headquarters merging with the military high command to form NDHQ (albeit over several years), the senior leaders quickly learned to be docile and keep their heads down.

With that historical example in mind, I can see why the senior leaders might be reticent to take a stand. Someone with some pull has to do it eventually, though, or it's only going to get worse...
 
Guardian said:
When they later formed a government, they took action to ensure that the military leadership in this country would never go against political direction again. This action was carried out by a guy named Paul Hellyer - unification. Stripped of their tradition and their pride in their service identities, and with the civilian DND headquarters merging with the military high command to form NDHQ (albeit over several years), the senior leaders quickly learned to be docile and keep their heads down.

With that historical example in mind, I can see why the senior leaders might be reticent to take a stand. Someone with some pull has to do it eventually, though, or it's only going to get worse...

Hellyer unified the forces, yes, but he did not merge the military and civilian aspects into NDHQ. He's actually spoken out in opposition to this merge:

The problem began in 1974, seven years after I left the Department, when Prime Minister Trudeau and Defence Minister Donald MacDonald decided to merge the military and civilian headquarters. This was a very bad decision because oil and water don't mix. It was the beginning of what has been called the "civilianization" of the forces.
from here (see foreign affairs - military)
 
Along with the already stated reasons, both by this gentleman and the official statement from the government/military, I think that the fact that soldiers would be put in more danger than they already are might have played a factor. Right now they are stationed in the relative security of Kabul, and I am sure that there is fear that if Canadian soldiers are sent out into the countryside to hunt down the actual terrorists rather than patrolling Kabul neighborhoods, that the bodybags will start to pile up. No matter how few casualties that brings, the media would be all over it like a bee on honey. And when the media portrays something in a bad light, it tends to have the same effect on Canadians. When the coffins started coming home, the public would turn against the mission and I assume we would see protests telling the government to bring our troops home.
 
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