Majority of Canadians not interested in joining the CAF

[dimsum]

In the past decade, since we stopped in Afghanistan- what is the REAL thing that we are selling? There have been Ops and I’m not saying otherwise.

But for the 80 thousand uniforms- what has been the “adventure” and getting to do your job part?

Maybe I’m way out of ‘er. But we aren’t selling much beyond government service and a pension. Why would I leave home for that?

That is a very Army-centric view. I get it - the majority of the CAF is Army.

However, the RCN and RCAF haven't stopped travelling, if you think about it. Some fleets are even more busy than before.

So, I'd say the hard sea (and air) proportion, and the ones supporting them, have had the "adventure" boxes ticked off - I know I have.

 

[kev994]

I may completely off base here (and I'd love if anyone could point me in the direction of enlistment info that I could take a look at) but I get the feeling that Quebec and the Prairies punch above their weight in terms of proportional recruitment, and I'd hypothesize that being able to serve "at home" plays a part in that.

When I was at 435 the portion of the unit that grew up in the Winnipeg and surrounding area was astounding. Nobody in Winnipeg wants to go to Trenton and nobody in Trenton wants to go to Winnipeg.

 

[Good2Golf]

When I was at 435 the portion of the unit that grew up in the Winnipeg and surrounding area was astounding. Nobody in Winnipeg wants to go to Trenton and nobody in Trenton wants to go to Winnipeg.

If the numbers work out, then that shouldn’t be a problem, should it @kev994? I understood that the AMAG and SAR folks generally liked their own niches.

 

[kev994]

If the numbers work out, then that shouldn’t be a problem, should it @kev994? I understood that the AMAG and SAR folks generally liked their own niches.

That’s pretty much how they got there, it’s not a highly sought after place unless you’re from there, so the community pretty much jumps at the opportunity to send someone there who wants to go.

 

[daftandbarmy]

In the past decade, since we stopped in Afghanistan- what is the REAL thing that we are selling? There have been Ops and I’m not saying otherwise.

But for the 80 thousand uniforms- what has been the “adventure” and getting to do your job part?

Maybe I’m way out of ‘er. But we aren’t selling much beyond government service and a pension. Why would I leave home for that?

Great sales programs enlist their employees in the effort, and equip them with the knowledge and tools required to attract/recruit people to the organization without any special help from HR etc.

The fact that you have to ask that question speaks volumes.

Everyone in the CAF should have access to current data that identifies what we are 'selling' (the product), to whom (the target audiences and their behaviour and preferences) and a range of other supporting information (pay, benefits, career opportunities, an authentic articulation of the challenges involved).

And then there's the reality that engaged employees are sometimes your best sales force:

Engage Your Employees and Boost Your Sales

Employee engagement is most commonly associated with employee motivation, increasing morale, aiding employees to give their best each day, and boosting productivity in the workplace. However, engaged employees also strengthen brand. They become brand advocates, helping to engage customers not because of process, but because of belief in the brand. This boosts sales. To achieve this, an organization must develop an internal comms strategy aimed at creating the culture in which employees are engaged with its brand.

Engage your employees and boost your sales

Employee engagement is most commonly associated with employee motivation, increasing morale, aiding employees to give their best each day, and boosting productivity in the workplace. However, engaged employees also strengthen brand. They become brand advocates, helping to engage customers not...

www.forwardfocusinc.com

 

[FJAG]

It would be an interesting experiment to have a unit in the GTA (let's say a cyber unit or a UAV unit or logistics unit - something that doesn't need vast training areas - maybe even something paired with a reserve unit) and recruit people in the GTA with a contract that expressly states that they will not be posted out of the unit or the GTA for the term of their contract.

It may very well result in attracting people who already have a home and family in the area and do not wish to leave or people in other areas willing to move into the region.

It would be interesting to see how sustainable such a unit is. If it works that experiment can move to other urban areas.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

That is a very Army-centric view. I get it - the majority of the CAF is Army.

However, the RCN and RCAF haven't stopped travelling, if you think about it. Some fleets are even more busy than before.

So, I'd say the hard sea (and air) proportion, and the ones supporting them, have had the "adventure" boxes ticked off - I know I have.

Current CAF operations have lacked focus for the most part or a real clear intent. Contrast 2015 and after to before 2015.

Most current Navy Ops could be called Op COCKTAIL because pre-COVID, that's all that really happens.

A lot of issues with perception are very much down to the current Government and it's messaging WRT the CAF and what it wants.

 

[Quirky]

It would be an interesting experiment to have a unit in the GTA (let's say a cyber unit or a UAV unit or logistics unit - something that doesn't need vast training areas - maybe even something paired with a reserve unit) and recruit people in the GTA with a contract that expressly states that they will not be posted out of the unit or the GTA for the term of their contract.

It may very well result in attracting people who already have a home and family in the area and do not wish to leave or people in other areas willing to move into the region.

It would be interesting to see how sustainable such a unit is. If it works that experiment can move to other urban areas.

How would that unit work with promotions and available positions? You'd need a promotion freeze in those units. Many postings are a result of members being promoted out of their unit/base because there isn't a position for them. That unit would need some sort of financial incentive, unless the members working there are okay with salary raises every 4-5 years based on inflation.

 

[IKnowNothing]

It would be an interesting experiment to have a unit in the GTA (let's say a cyber unit or a UAV unit or logistics unit - something that doesn't need vast training areas - maybe even something paired with a reserve unit) and recruit people in the GTA with a contract that expressly states that they will not be posted out of the unit or the GTA for the term of their contract.

It may very well result in attracting people who already have a home and family in the area and do not wish to leave or people in other areas willing to move into the region.

It would be interesting to see how sustainable such a unit is. If it works that experiment can move to other urban areas.

What about using that contract to build a light battlegroup at Borden/Meaford?
Move down elements of 4th division support group as well.
Build upon the bolded concept, augmented by the pre-existing pool of 31 & 32 CBG.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Current CAF operations have lacked focus for the most part or a real clear intent. Contrast 2015 and after to before 2015.

Most current Navy Ops could be called Op COCKTAIL because pre-COVID, that's all that really happens.

A lot of issues with perception are very much down to the current Government and it's messaging WRT the CAF and what it wants.

I think for the Navy side we have to remember alot of the reasoning for our NATO and PAC Rim trips are diplomatic and showing the flag.

Yes those cocktail parties arent full of glory and action but there is a fair about of commerce and diplomatic ties created or strengthened on those flight decks.

The CAF is also an extremely Army centric organization. We either change that or learn to use it and manipulate it.

 

[dapaterson]

If I had a dollar for every time a sailor claims sending a single clapped out unsafe sea frigate to a foreign port for a booze up on the flight deck is the underlying foundation of all Canadian foreign policy, I could pay for the CSC project with enough left over for the F35s.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Current CAF operations have lacked focus for the most part or a real clear intent. Contrast 2015 and after to before 2015.

Most current Navy Ops could be called Op COCKTAIL because pre-COVID, that's all that really happens.

A lot of issues with perception are very much down to the current Government and it's messaging WRT the CAF and what it wants.

How about 'OP CONVENE'... that sounds on mission

Joly rightly called Canada a convener, and it’s time to put her words into action​

Foreign policy is not about transactional politics, but about advancing interests by maneuvering through the maze of international pushes and pulls. That maze has become increasingly complex.​

Joly rightly called Canada a convener, and it's time to put her words into action

Foreign policy is not about transactional politics, but about advancing interests by maneuvering through the maze of international pushes and pulls. That maze has become increasingly complex.

www.hilltimes.com

 

[FSTO]

If I had a dollar for every time a sailor claims sending a single clapped out unsafe sea frigate to a foreign port for a booze up on the flight deck is the underlying foundation of all Canadian foreign policy, I could pay for the CSC project with enough left over for the F35s.

I think you're being somewhat over the top my good chap!

Hiccup!!1

 

[Halifax Tar]

If I had a dollar for every time a sailor claims sending a single clapped out unsafe sea frigate to a foreign port for a booze up on the flight deck is the underlying foundation of all Canadian foreign policy, I could pay for the CSC project with enough left over for the F35s.

You can be critical of it all you want. I've been to more than one port that was at the direction/request of Foreign Affairs and not DND or the CAF.

It's been a role of Navies since Jesus was an OD.

As for the state of the ships, that's a whole other ball of nuts and bolts.

 

[dapaterson]

I think you're being somewhat over the top my good chap!

Hiccup!!1

Ok, maybe not the F35s as well

 

[Booter]

That is a very Army-centric view. I get it - the majority of the CAF is Army.

However, the RCN and RCAF haven't stopped travelling, if you think about it. Some fleets are even more busy than before.

So, I'd say the hard sea (and air) proportion, and the ones supporting them, have had the "adventure" boxes ticked off - I know I have.

Things are a higher tempo than when I was navy.

But I think we may be talking about two different things. Travel and adventure vs having a mission and doing work.

I suppose I am thinking of what was told about recruiting when we had a war, I’m not suggesting picking fights for recruiting but the appeal for some is to do the work.

I just took a took a look at the op sizes over the last few years. 15 here, couple hundred there.

Training missions. I do think my motivations are at odds with the reason those Canadians polled aren’t interested.

I think wanting a certain demographic is a luxury of a well staffed and agile organization…sooooooo

I’m also an outlier. I’ve had 11 physical moves, 5 provinces, international work, in 15 years.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Things are a higher tempo than when I was navy.

But I think we may be talking about two different things. Travel and adventure vs having a mission and doing work.

I suppose I am thinking of what was told about recruiting when we had a war, I’m not suggesting picking fights for recruiting but the appeal for some is to do the work.

I just took a took a look at the op sizes over the last few years. 15 here, couple hundred there.

Training missions. I do think my motivations are at odds with the reason those Canadians polled aren’t interested.

I think wanting a certain demographic is a luxury of a well staffed and agile organization…sooooooo

I’m also an outlier. I’ve had 11 physical moves, 5 provinces, international work, in 15 years.

Yep, big difference in what we were up to a decade + ago vs what we are doing today.

15 years ago we had the CDS on TV talking about how "the Taliban were detestable scumbags and murderers and we were gonna kill em all".

Now members who participated in those operations are getting in trouble for their tattoos from said Ops.....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/navy-infidel-tattoo-halifax-tweet-sailor-1.5206521

The mixed messaging and sudden arc change is what's causing the chaos

 

[MilEME09]

Yep, big difference in what we were up to a decade + ago vs what we are doing today.

15 years ago we had the CDS on TV talking about how "the Taliban were detestable scumbags and murderers and we were gonna kill em all".

Now members who participated in those operations are getting in trouble for their tattoos from said Ops.....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/navy-infidel-tattoo-halifax-tweet-sailor-1.5206521

The mixed messaging and sudden arc change is what's causing the chaos

To me it's a lack of strategic priorities at the upper levels. By strategic, I mean I the business sense of setting long term goals, then using tactical (short term) planning to make it. Why we fall short on that is the high turn over rate we have unfortunately suffered in our most senior positions. As people change, so do their priorities, things get refocused, projects get priority, others are shelved. This constant Flux does us no favors in creating an image that portrays us as a desirable career choice.

 

[kev994]

To me it's a lack of strategic priorities at the upper levels. By strategic, I mean I the business sense of setting long term goals, then using tactical (short term) planning to make it. Why we fall short on that is the high turn over rate we have unfortunately suffered in our most senior positions. As people change, so do their priorities, things get refocused, projects get priority, others are shelved. This constant Flux does us no favors in creating an image that portrays us as a desirable career choice.

Our promotion system doesn’t reward “laid the groundwork for someone else to accomplish something in 10 years…” and people will do exactly what you reward them for.

 

[dimsum]

Now members who participated in those operations are getting in trouble for their tattoos from said Ops.....

That is not just us though. US, UK, Australia, etc have had similar orders.

I think for the Navy side we have to remember alot of the reasoning for our NATO and PAC Rim trips are diplomatic and showing the flag.

There is also the air side, which is less diplomatic (except for the party).

It would be an interesting experiment to have a unit in the GTA (let's say a cyber unit or a UAV unit or logistics unit - something that doesn't need vast training areas - maybe even something paired with a reserve unit) and recruit people in the GTA with a contract that expressly states that they will not be posted out of the unit or the GTA for the term of their contract.

RPAS will have its operators all in the NCR.