Man killed by Winnipeg police was former Canadian Forces member: sources

[Blakey]

More Updates:

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=184101

Ex-soldier had pellet gun when shot by police: report
Taser used but ineffective in incident

WINNIPEG -- A man shot to death by Winnipeg police this week spent two decades with the Canadian military, but was discharged in 2004 because of anger management issues, the Winnipeg Free Press learned Wednesday.

Roy Thomas Bell, 42, was shot and killed behind a city apartment building Monday night in an incident some residents have described as "suicide by cop."

A family acquaintance told the Free Press the distraught man confronted police carrying a pellet gun that closely resembled a real firearm.

Witnesses say Mr. Bell ignored repeated demands from two officers to drop the replica pistol and, at one point, dared officers to shoot him.

Mr. Bell served more than 23 years in the 17 Wing post office at CFB Winnipeg, but was discharged three years ago when the military deemed he was unfit for active duty overseas, a family acquaintance said Wednesday.

Emphasis mine.
Ironic, a few weeks ago people were up in arms because of tasers, here it seems, that it (the taser) wasn't up to the task (for whatever reasons)

EDIT: To add photo.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Speculation and conjecture.  That is what you call good Journalism? 

No.Humans do that for themselves,as this website does quite often.The journalist wrote the facts plain and simple.
Ex soldier PTSD-shot-killed.
I merely said the article is offering up quite a few topics for the reader to think about.

Perhaps I'm not communicating well,little tired.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Police said the officers encountered the man just before 11 p.m. Monday and saw he was armed with a bat and a gun.
Officers shot the suspect with a Taser, which proved unsuccessful in subduing him, police said.
The threat escalated and the man was shot, police said. He was taken to hospital, where he succumbed to his injuries.

I wonder if the taser will get blamed for his death? 
Suicide by cop is a drag for whoever has to go through it, but unfortunately we are a customer service oriented profession.  The customer got what he wanted.  It's unfortunate he couldn't have gotten it without putting some guys through a bunch of hell to get there. 

 

[retiredgrunt45]

Below are some causes of PTSD and there not all related to just military service. Any extremely tramatic experience(s) in someones life can leave them affected with the disorder.

Traumatic experiences
Main article: Psychological trauma
Childhood physical, emotional, or sexual abuse, including prolonged or extreme neglect; also, witnessing such abuse inflicted on another child or an adult
Experiences and interactions that are experienced as psychological "attacks"; for example a continual perception of psychological force, invalidation or annihilation.
Experiencing (including witnessing) an event perceived as life-threatening, such as:
a serious accident
medical complications
violent physical assault or witnessing such an event, including torture
adult experiences of sexual assault
warfare, policing and other occupations exposed to violence or disaster
violent, life threatening, natural (or man made) disasters
incarceration

Cancer
While PTSD is normally associated with trauma such as violent crimes, life-threatening accidents, and war experience, a growing number of reports of PTSD among cancer survivors and their relatives have surfaced.[4][5] Most cancer-PTSD studies deal with survivors of breast cancer[6][7][8] and cancer in children and their parents[9] and show prevalence figures of between 5% and 20%. Characteristic intrusive and avoidance symptoms have been described in cancer patients with traumatic memories of injury, treatment, and death.[10] Disagreement continues on whether the traumas associated with different stressful events relating to cancer diagnosis and treatment actually qualify as PTSD stressors.[6] Cancer as trauma is seen as multifaceted, including multiple events that can cause distress, and like combat, is often characterized by extended duration with a potential for recurrence and a varying immediacy of life-threat.[4]


Diagnostic criteria
The diagnostic criteria for PTSD, per the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) (DSM-IV-TR), may be summarized as:

A. Exposure to a traumatic event
B. Persistent reexperience
C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma
D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (e.g. difficulty falling or staying asleep or hypervigilance)
E. Duration of symptoms more than 1 month
F. Significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Well, why you are very right, but the point I am arguing, is that he was NEVER over seas, or at least thats what the report says. So never being over seas, would leave one to believe that if he did indeed have PTSD, it's likely from another event/experience and probably has nothing to do with the military. I would assume that it is still possible to acquire PTSD within the military, without being deployed, however I think it is unlikely to happen.

You've obviously never talked to people who had to pick up body parts off the runway in Gander after the crash in the 80s or those who picked up body parts in the water or on the beach after Swiss Air. Be careful not to generalise....this job carries risk to health (mind and body) and limb whether you're in a theatre of war or doing domestic ops.

 

[fraserdw]

Interesting debate, we had one in the maritimes of a former naval officer with PTSD who cut the balls off of a kitten.  He was given a little sentence because of his Swiss Air induced PTSD.  His lawyer was the one who played the PTSD up even claiming the the Navy was more responsible for incident than the former naval officer.

 

[Blakey]

More updates to the story.
Obviously VA's fault, according to the wife and friend....
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071220.SHOT20/TPStory/National

Darlene Bell, his 31-year-old widow, blames her husband's death on the people at Veterans' Affairs who she says failed to get him the help he needed.

Was it stated somewhere that he was actually diagnosed with PTSD?, I haven't seen anything to the fact. I think the press are just drawing conclusions with what family and friends are saying.

EDIT:

"He just couldn't take the pressure and the stress."

I suspect I'll never know but, I would be curious to know what "pressure and stress" she is referring to?, of being released from the military, found not fit to deploy overseas, etc...

 

[PMedMoe]

a former naval officer with PTSD who cut the balls off of a kitten. 

That's just truly disturbing. Makes you wonder if he pulled the wings off flies when he was a kid.

Edit to add:  From the Globe and Mail article:

The infantry didn't suit his temperament

There's a possibility he had problems before he joined.

 

[Kat Stevens]

More updates to the story.
Obviously VA's fault, according to the wife and friend....
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071220.SHOT20/TPStory/National
Was it stated somewhere that he was actually diagnosed with PTSD?, I haven't seen anything to the fact. I think the press are just drawing conclusions with what family and friends are saying.

EDIT: I suspect I'll never know but, I would be curious to know what "pressure and stress" she is referring to?, of being released from the military, found not fit to deploy overseas, etc...

Not that I'm defending the blame game here, but it's a pretty normal reaction to look for someone to hang responsibility on, or at least take a decent sized share of it.  Prepare for more lashing out from the family very soon.

 

[GAP]

On the news last night they interviewed someone who was apparently in his PTSD discussion/therapy group. I assume he wouldn't have been there without an official diagnosis....that said, there is little to go on as to determining what the PTSD was related to.

 

[Blakey]

Police shooting prompts questions about PTSD treatment availability
Last Updated: Thursday, December 20, 2007 | 9:36 AM CT
CBC News
Questions are being raised about the availability of help for soldiers and veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder in the wake of a police shooting that killed a Winnipeg man earlier this week.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/12/20/ptsd.html

 

[George Wallace]

I guess we all saw that one coming.    :

So predictable.

 

[Blakey]

^Yup, and it is going to (if not already) spiral out of control....

 

[Shamrock]

What an absolute crap article.

"Sometimes it's difficult to actually take your own life," [Dr. Greg Passey] said. "From a soldier's point of view, getting into a situation where you can ensure someone else will kill you is an effective way of actually committing suicide."

With so many thousand serving and so many hundred thousand past serving members, how is this sweeping generalization even remotely professional for a psychologist?  I believe it's called a fundamental attribution error; an error that I thought psychologists were trained to avoid.  It's a sad statement that flies in the face of fact: all too many soldiers and former soldiers have had the ability to not make suicide a team sport.

 

[Roy Harding]

Greg Passey is a well-known and highly respected authority on PTSD.  I don't know if he's still serving or not.

When I knew him as Major Greg Passey, I didn't have a lot of time for him - but that doesn't take away from his acknowledged authority on the subject.

 

[ModlrMike]

Dr Passey no longer wears the uniform. He is in private practice (I'm not about to say where), but may still do work for the Crown. Just for clarity sake... he's a psychiatrist, not psychologist.

 

[Roy Harding]

Dr Passey no longer wears the uniform. He is in private practice (I'm not about to say where), but may still do work for the Crown. Just for clarity sake... he's a psychiatrist, not psychologist.

Thanks for the update on Dr. Passey's current military status (or lack thereof).

And the distinction between psychiatrist and psychologist is important - my middle son is a psychologist - and he can bore you for HOURS (he must get it from his Mother - I know I'm NEVER boring!)  outlining the differences.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

"Failed to give the help he needed".........................if only there was a magic little pill/course of action that could fix a problem with the human mind.

You can tell a tree it's a tree thousands of times but, if it really thinks it's a rock, then its a rock.

 

[Blakey]

A little bit of information that I dug up.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/12/19/police-shooting.html?ref=rss

Matthew Gray, a retired soldier, told CBC News that Bell, known to many as Tom, had long struggled with mental-health issues, including post-traumatic stress disorder, following a training deployment overseas as part of his military service.

Video interview @ 1:32  http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=72a_1198124082


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/11/21/mba-taser.html

Manitoba man sues RCMP over Taser use
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 | 2:42 PM CT
CBC News

RCMP in Manitoba are being sued by a former soldier with various mental disorders who says officers used a Taser on him while he was handcuffed.

Matthew Gray, 45, a retired soldier who lives in Portage la Prairie, Man., has post-traumatic stress, bipolar and anxiety-panic disorders, he told CBC News.

 

[Roy Harding]

...

You can tell a tree it's a tree thousands of times but, if it really thinks it's a rock, then its a rock.

That may well be the best encapsulation of human psychology that I've ever read.

I've forwarded it to my son the Psychologist (Yes - I'm partially Jewish) - I'll be interested to receive his response.