Man killed by Winnipeg police was former Canadian Forces member: sources

[Nfld Sapper]

Keep learning my young jedi.  ;D

 

[Pte.Butt]

Umm, I don't believe military events are a prerequisite for PTSD.......

Yes I am aware of this, but judging by the article there seem to be finger pointing at the military, for being the cause of this man's case of PTSD.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Hey Bruce maybe he got it from here:

In 1984 the 2nd Battalion PPCLI returned to Germany in a European operational role for the first time since 1970. The unit operating from Baden-Baden was part of the Central Army Group and the 4th Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group from 1984 to 1988.

Ref: PPCLI History

 

[X-mo-1979]

Why did the reporters make sure his military service made it into the story?RELEVANCE.
Violence.We train in it everyday in some form or another.And when a ex member who has been trained to remove peoples existence from this earth dies by confrontation with law enforcement,there is relevance.

George Wallace used the example of not using his Coca-Cola history if a story was to be made of him.If your coca cola plant closed down just prior,I would guarantee it would make the headlines. "Mr Wallace was shot in face,fired at cops in a rage over losing his job.2000 others lost their job in the region." Relevance.

As for him being a super soldier etc,I say look around the boards here.Many not combat unit types always say "infantry first trade second."
Or "I topped my recce patrols on JLC and I'm a cook."We tend to blend the lines between units/trades etc.So how the heck is the MSM suppose to understand.

 

[Roy Harding]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/12/19/police-shooting.html

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071218/police_shooting_071219/20071219?hub=Canada


I am no doctor, but working as a military postal worker, and never deployed over seas, just dose not equate to Post traumatic stress disorder. 
I call bullcrap on CBC, just another blow at the military, remember we are the big bad military in the eyes of the media. Mothers, I hope you have hid your daughters!.  :

Based upon the media reports, you have no idea what he may or may not have done "overseas".

I was a "support trade" and yet somehow I managed to stuff children's body parts into plastic bags whilst deployed.  And yes, I do have the occasional nightmare - even as a "non-combatant".  (We can get into the falseness of your premise regarding "non-combatants" later, if you wish).

Suck back - reload.

I don't know what Mr. Bell's background was - nor do I care - he tragically caused a couple of LEOs to fire on him - not a pretty picture; and my immediate thoughts are with those Officers - and there's a secret part of my soul which grieves for Mr. Bell - I didn't know him - but I know others LIKE him.


Roy

 

[George Wallace]

George Wallace used the example of not using his Coca-Cola history if a story was to be made of him.If your coca cola plant closed down just prior,I would guarantee it would make the headlines. "Mr Wallace was shot in face,fired at cops in a rage over losing his job.2000 others lost their job in the region." Relevance.

I think you missed the point there.  Coca Cola was a previous job, just as the CF was a previous occupation for Mr Bell.  No one is going to mention that I was a Coca Cola worker, if I am currently employed elsewhere.  Mr. Bell left the CF in 2004.  It is nearly four years later, what is his current occupation? 

 

[Pte.Butt]

Based upon the media reports, you have no idea what he may or may not have done "overseas".

I was a "support trade" and yet somehow I managed to stuff children's body parts into plastic bags whilst deployed.  And yes, I do have the occasional nightmare - even as a "non-combatant".  (We can get into the falseness of your premise regarding "non-combatants" later, if you wish).

Suck back - reload.

I don't know what Mr. Bell's background was - nor do I care - he tragically caused a couple of LEOs to fire on him - not a pretty picture; and my immediate thoughts are with those Officers - and there's a secret part of my soul which grieves for Mr. Bell - I didn't know him - but I know others LIKE him.


Roy

Well, why you are very right, but the point I am arguing, is that he was NEVER over seas, or at least thats what the report says. So never being over seas, would leave one to believe that if he did indeed have PTSD, it's likely from another event/experience and probably has nothing to do with the military. I would assume that it is still possible to acquire PTSD within the military, without being deployed, however I think it is unlikely to happen.

 

[Pte.Butt]

I think you missed the point there.  Coca Cola was a previous job, just as the CF was a previous occupation for Mr Bell.  No one is going to mention that I was a Coca Cola worker, if I am currently employed elsewhere.  Mr. Bell left the CF in 2004.  It is nearly four years later, what is his current occupation? 

It would leave one to think, that Mr.Bell being in the military is completely irrelevant to this incident, and it is just a cheap shot at the military. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well, why you are very right, but the point I am arguing, is that he was NEVER over seas, or at least thats what the report says. So never being over seas, would leave one to believe that if he did indeed have PTSD, it's likely from another event/experience and probably has nothing to do with the military. I would assume that it is still possible to acquire PTSD within the military, without being deployed, however I think it is unlikely to happen.

Then I would suggest you be quiet for awhile and read up on the subject, before you get your ass handed to you.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Remember Pte.Butt this places has eyes on you.

 

[ModlrMike]

Well, why you are very right, but the point I am arguing, is that he was NEVER over seas, or at least thats what the report says. So never being over seas, would leave one to believe that if he did indeed have PTSD, it's likely from another event/experience and probably has nothing to do with the military. I would assume that it is still possible to acquire PTSD within the military, without being deployed, however I think it is unlikely to happen.

It's actually quite likely to happen. We spend much more of our careers in Canada than we do overseas. I'm not trying to be rude, but I think it's time for some mine tape.

 

[deedster]

+1 Roy

And I have to say, as a civilian frequenting these forums (and a CF supporter to the n'th degree) that, although it may seem to some here that the media's reporting doesn't always put a positive  spin on whatever happens regarding our troops (or ex-members) there is also a lot of positive stuff going on.  Heck, everytime there's a commercial on Global TV tonight I'm watching CF members, both here and overseas, sending messages to their families and the rest of Canada.  I'd say that's positive.  

I think I'm probably out of my lane...

I think what happened in Winnipeg was terrible, no matter what Mr. Bell's previous work experience & medical condition was.

 

[Roy Harding]

Well, why you are very right, but the point I am arguing, is that he was NEVER over seas, or at least thats what the report says. So never being over seas, would leave one to believe that if he did indeed have PTSD, it's likely from another event/experience and probably has nothing to do with the military. I would assume that it is still possible to acquire PTSD within the military, without being deployed, however I think it is unlikely to happen.

We're done, Son.

You don't have the slightest understanding of what PTSD is, or what its'  ramifications may be.  And yet,  somehow you feel entitled to an opinion - which, to be fair, you ARE entitled to - but in your case it is an UNIFORMED opinion.

I don't know that Mr. Bell was suffering from PTSD - but I still feel sorrow for what he, AND the peace officers involved were put through.

You're being DELIBERATELY obtuse - and you don't have the background which would give me a reason to give you a break.


Roy

 

[X-mo-1979]

I think you missed the point there.  Coca Cola was a previous job, just as the CF was a previous occupation for Mr Bell.  No one is going to mention that I was a Coca Cola worker, if I am currently employed elsewhere.  Mr. Bell left the CF in 2004.  It is nearly four years later, what is his current occupation? 

Yes but if its a violent act they are defiantly going to mention your past military training.We train to kill,therefore its fairly relevant.Even if he worked at 7-11 for the past few years he was still a trained soldier.
I don't find this a cheap shot at all towards the military/CF.He was a ex soldier.
Infact I find it a good article.The writer managed to not only cover a tragic scene but put a few thoughts for discussion/reflection on things like ex-trained killer,PTSD,is the army caring for its vets..the list goes on and on.

I think this writer did his job.

 

[George Wallace]

Infact I find it a good article.The writer managed to not only cover a tragic scene but put a few thoughts for discussion/reflection on things like ex-trained killer,PTSD,is the army caring for its vets..the list goes on and on.

I think this writer did his job.

Speculation and conjecture.  That is what you call good Journalism?  I would hesitated to put into print what my speculation and conjecture is at this very moment.

 

[TN2IC]

I would assume that it is still possible to acquire PTSD within the military, without being deployed, however I think it is unlikely to happen.

You don't think things tragic happen on base? What about a bloody vehicle collision down a high way? May factors to think about.

PTSD stands for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. So pick it apart and understand the full meaning of it.

But please note, I'm not a SME in mental health. It just my opinion on it.

Regards,
Knecht Ruprecht

 

[SweetNavyJustice]

I think you missed the point there.  Coca Cola was a previous job, just as the CF was a previous occupation for Mr Bell.  No one is going to mention that I was a Coca Cola worker, if I am currently employed elsewhere.  Mr. Bell left the CF in 2004.  It is nearly four years later, what is his current occupation?

I'm still not agreeing with you on this George (not that you're asking me to).  

At least from what is being written, they are attributing his PTSD to his experiences in the CF.  His suffering this psychosis resulted in his causing the situation where the civilian police were forced to kill him.  

Ergo, his being in the CF is tied to his PTSD (through whatever means) which resulted in the incident that lead to his death.  His previous job in the CF seems quite relevant.  

To use your example of previous work at the Coca Cola plant, if you had worked at the plant and were traumatized due to some incident directly related to Coke, then it would likely be part of the news story.  

The news media will always post someone's job as a frame of reference because no one cares who "joe" is.  "Joe" who worked for "X" has meaning, especially when there is an apparent link in the incident.  

As for Pvt Butt.  You really do need to read a little on PTSD to have a clue as to what you're talking about.  Best first reference is the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychological Disorders).  See what it takes to have a diagnosis and then gain an understanding of what incidents will cause this event.  

 

[Pte.Butt]

I'm still not agreeing with you on this George (not that you're asking me to). 

At least from what is being written, they are attributing his PTSD to his experiences in the CF.  His suffering this psychosis resulted in his causing the situation where the civilian police were forced to kill him. 

Ergo, his being in the CF is tied to his PTSD (through whatever means) which resulted in the incident that lead to his death.  His previous job in the CF seems quite relevant. 

To use your example of previous work at the Coca Cola plant, if you had worked at the plant and were traumatized due to some incident directly related to Coke, then it would likely be part of the news story. 

The news media will always post someone's job as a frame of reference because no one cares who "joe" is.  "Joe" who worked for "X" has meaning, especially when there is an apparent link in the incident. 

As for Pvt Butt.  You really do need to read a little on PTSD to have a clue as to what you're talking about.  Best first reference is the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Psychological Disorders).  See what it takes to have a diagnosis and then gain an understanding of what incidents will cause this event.

I am doing so right now. I realize I am out of my lane on this one, and I apologize. I will read up on this, and if I feel I have a better understanding of the topic at hand, and I have something to contribute, I may return to this thread.

 

[armyvern]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/12/19/police-shooting.html

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071218/police_shooting_071219/20071219?hub=Canada


I am no doctor, but working as a military postal worker, and never deployed over seas, just dose not equate to Post traumatic stress disorder. 
I call bullcrap on CBC, just another blow at the military, remember we are the big bad military in the eyes of the media. Mothers, I hope you have hid your daughters!.  :

All right. Enough already.

I KNOW someone who suffers from PTSD who NEVER deployed overseas ... but was involved in recovery efforts of Swiss Air 111. Do YOU honestly think that only service overseas can cause PTSD? If so, you've got to attend some more briefings I'm afraid. I know another who witnessed a fellow soldier killed in a roll-over while trg here in Canada, but was helpless to assist.

The guy was PPCLI for the first 10 years of his career as the article relates -- who said anything about his PTSD being related or contributory due to his time as a postal clerk? Or even that his PTSD was caused by his Military service ... perhaps he had been on the scene of a major car accident etc.

Perhaps we should hide you and your ill-informed and ill-advised comments for a bit?

The story is young ... the full facts will come out eventually. Be very careful what you choose to paint with your brush.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I am doing so right now. I realize I am out of my lane on this one, and I apologize. I will read up on this, and if I feel I have a better understanding of the topic at hand, and I have something to contribute, I may return to this thread.

Thank you. It's refreshing to find a young neophyte here, that understands when they are over their head, admit it, take the advice and attempt to better themselves for it. Not take umbridge and turn the whole thread into a shitfest. Too bad more didn't follow your example.

Now, back to the thread.