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MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )

PPCLI Guy

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Navy_Pete said:
ot that I'm saying that money isn't owed back, but considering the circumstances, there really was no rush to get it back.  This could have been handled a lot better, and been clearly communicated to allow people time to a) make sure the calculation is correct b) figure out how to pay it back in a reasonable time that doesn't mess with their finances.

Please take yes for an answer:

2.  ACCORDINGLY, PLEASE BE ADVISED THAT FOR NOW NO REPEAT NO RECOVERIES OR PAYOUTS OF AMOUNTS CONCERNING THESE ADJUSTMENTS WILL BE ACTIONED

It appears to me that it has been identified that the approach to this problem has been a tad ham-fisted - and that has been acknowledged, and at the highest possible levels.  Let's wait and see how this will develop.
 

Strike

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Well, I can just imagine how well this would have gone over for those of us still on parental, especially considering the recent issues with getting pay statements mailed via civilian email accounts.  It's only because of this site that I even had a shmeck about it and I wouldn't be able to do anything anyway since I'm literally on the other end of the planet.
 

Halifax Tar

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Strike said:
Well, I can just imagine how well this would have gone over for those of us still on parental, especially considering the recent issues with getting pay statements mailed via civilian email accounts.  It's only because of this site that I even had a shmeck about it and I wouldn't be able to do anything anyway since I'm literally on the other end of the planet.

That's me your talking about. I haven't received a pay statement sense going on parental. I found out initially about this "adjustment" through Facebook from a buddy across the country and this site. My CoC still hasn't contacted me about this.
 
 

Strike

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Seems EMAA decided not to send me my pay stub for this pay statement so just found out today that my pay was docked.    :facepalm:  Not my OR's fault though.  Called them up and was told the second they heard about the CANFORGEN they put a note on everyone's files to put a hold on any deductions but they had already been put through.
 

DAA

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Halifax Tar said:
That's me your talking about. I haven't received a pay statement sense going on parental. I found out initially about this "adjustment" through Facebook from a buddy across the country and this site. My CoC still hasn't contacted me about this.

Your supporting Pay Office has the ability to receive Pay Statements on your behalf and then email them to you.  Good luck in getting them to figure it out!

Your best bet, is to get a "friend" to do this on your behalf, have the pay statements emailed to "their" DWAN account and then they can "forward" them along to you.

Oh wait a second!  What about the MATA/PATA Clerk doing that?
 

VanStoker

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Hi there,

Just wondering if anyone can answer this question for me as the first few people I asked through my CoC didn't know the answer.

Am I required to pay mess dues while on Mata/Pata?

I spent a number of months getting paid from Employment Insurance while raising my baby, (the military topped me up to 90%) but I just noticed on all my pay stubs while I was on Mata/Pata I was being charged $15.00 for mess dues.

Is this normal?  Anyone know?

Thanks in advanced.
 

X Royal

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If you were surviving on EI alone I can see your point but being topped up to 90% I can't see the problem.
A great many on the civilian side have to survive without any top up. If you have a decent paying civilian job once you hit EI max that's it. Many times this can be far less than 50% of your before leave income.
 

VanStoker

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Hmmm,  I see where you are coming from. However my question is still outstanding. 

To my knowledge, this $15.00 per month is required to be paid by all active members of the mess for the privilege of participating in the mess, and being allowed access to mess functions (ie fleet club, functions, etc.), of which I had no involvement with during my Mata/Pata leave.

I was hoping someone with experience in this matter could shed some light.
 

X Royal

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westcoastsailor said:
To my knowledge, this $15.00 per month is required to be paid by all active members of the mess for the privilege of participating in the mess, and being allowed access to mess functions (ie fleet club, functions, etc.), of which I had no involvement with during my Mata/Pata leave.
Just because you opted to not go to the mess doesn't mean you were not able to.
I have had members challenge paying mess dues because they chose not to go to the mess. Every time they were told too bad that's your choice.
 

jpjohnsn

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When my wife was on maternity leave a year-and-a-half ago, she found a CANFORGEN on the matter.

While on LWOP (like parental leave), as long as you are not frequenting the mess, dues are suspended for the duration of your leave.  You can still go to private functions at the mess (like weddings) but if you go to a mess function or start going to the mess again, the requirement to pay dues starts up again.
 

dangerboy

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https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/Library/PoliciesandRegulations/PSP/Documents/CFAO%2027-1%20Amendment%20CANFORGEN_150_09e.pdf

CANFORGEN 150/09 CMP 062/09 201445Z AUG 09
CFAO 27
-
1 AMENDMENT
UNCLASSIFIED
REF: CFAO 27
-
1
1.
CONFLICTING DIRECTION EXISTS WITH RESPECT TO THE
OBLIGATION TO CEASE OR PAY MESS DUES WHILE
DEPLOYED/POSTED AND WHEN ON LWOP, SUCH AS
MATERNITY/PARENTAL LEAVE. THE
AIM OF THIS CANFORGEN IS
TO ADVISE CF PERSONNEL OF THE AMENDED POLICY
2.
DELETE PARA 24 OF THE REFERENCE AND REPLACE IT WITH NEW
PARA 24 TO READ AS FOLLOWS: QUOTE WHEN A CF INDIVIDUAL
PROCEEDS ON TEMPORARY OR ATTACHED POSTING TO
ANOTHER UNIT FOR A PERIOD IN
EXCESS OF 14 DAYS, THE MESS
SUBSCRIPTION AND SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS COMMONLY
REFERRED TO AS MESS DUES, SHALL BE SUSPENDED AT THE
PARENT UNIT AND INSTITUTED AT THE GAINING UNIT. HOWEVER,
IN THE CASE WHERE NO MESS EXISTS IE THEATRE OF
OPERATIONS, US/EUROPE, MES
S SUBSCRIPTION AND SPECIAL
ASSESSMENTS SHALL BE SUSPENDED FOR PERIODS IN EXCESS
OF 14 DAYS. MESS SUBSCRIPTION AND SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS
SHALL BE RE
-
INSTITUTED IMMEDIATELY UPON RETURN. MESS
SUBSCRIPTION AND SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS SHALL BE CEASED
FOR ALL TYPES OF
LWOP IE MATERNITY/PARENTAL LEAVE FOR
PERS WHO WILL NOT FREQUENT THE MESS WHILE ON LWOP. IT IS
THE INDIVIDUALS RESPONSIBILITY TO CLEAR
-
IN/OUT OF THE
MESS. THIS DOES NOT PRECLUDE AN INDIVIDUAL FROM
ATTENDING A PRIVATE FUNCTION AT THE MESS THAT IS NOT
SUBSID
IZED BY THE MESS, SUCH AS A WEDDING. HOWEVER, IF A
MEMBER CONTINUES OR RECOMMENCES PARTICIPATING IN MESS
FUNCTIONS WHILE ON LWOP, HE/SHE SHALL PAY MESS DUES
UNQUOTE
3.
QUESTIONS CAN BE DIRECTED TO EITHER DIRECTOR SPORTS
RECREATION AND MESSES, JOHANNE THIBAUL
T, AT 613
-
992
-
0424,
JOHANNE.THIBAULT(AT) FORCES.GC.CA
OR TO THE NATIONAL
HOSPITALITY OFFICER, CPO2 NIELS JORGENSEN, AT 613
-
995
-
8077,
NIELS.JORGENSEN(AT)
FORCES.GC.CA
4.
SIGNED BY MGEN W. SEMIANIW, CMP
 

Eye In The Sky

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I am no Admin SME but...aren't you still being paid (even a %) by the CAF while on MATA/PATA and if so...how is that Leave Without Pay?
 

Cadwr

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From QR&O 16.27 - Parental Leave

(2) (Definition) In this article, "parental leave" means a period of leave without pay and allowances granted to an officer or non-commissioned member for parental or paternity purposes relating to one or more new-born or adopted children or children to be adopted. (20 July 2006)

Thus, the CF defines Parental leave as a period of leave without Pay and Allowances. 

Separately, DAOD 5001-2, Maternity and Parental Benefits, and A-PM-245-001/FP-011 Chapter 17, Maternity and Parental Benefits Administration, detail a list of benefits one can receive while not being in receipt of Pay and allowances during Maternity/Parental leave.

(edit: to add that QR&O 16.26, Maternity leave, has the same definition for that type of leave as presented above for parental leave.)
 

Strike

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Eye In The Sky said:
I am no Admin SME but...aren't you still being paid (even a %) by the CAF while on MATA/PATA and if so...how is that Leave Without Pay?

If one was on salary during that time (ie - not being paid through an allowance) then one would also still be paying into pension.  During that period of time you are essentially not on strength.
 

Lightguns

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Correct it is a taxable benefit not a pay check. You are on leave without pay and administered as such locally.

Edit. My daughter asked and was told that she was not entitled to wear a uniform while on MATA because it was LWOP. She attended Nov 11 in civies with medals.
 

Pusser

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Lightguns said:
Correct it is a taxable benefit not a pay check. You are on leave without pay and administered as such locally.

Edit. My daughter asked and was told that she was not entitled to wear a uniform while on MATA because it was LWOP. She attended Nov 11 in civies with medals.

I would say that your daughter received some bogus information.  I would argue that a member on LWOP is still a member of the CF  (i.e. he/she has not been released; therefore the uniform restrictions in QR&O 15.09 do not apply) and thus entitled to wear the appropriate CF uniform on suitable occasions.  QR&O Chapter 17 (Dress and Appearance) makes no mention of any restriction on wearing uniforms while on leave, of any type, unless the member is outside the country at the time:

17.06 - WEARING OF UNIFORM - RESTRICTION

(1) Except that an officer or non-commissioned member may wear a military uniform of obsolete pattern that is not likely to be confused with current dress, no member shall wear any part of military uniform at a fancy dress ball.

(2) No member of the Reserve Force shall wear uniform except when:

on service; or

attending a military entertainment or a ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate.

(3) A former member of the Regular Force or Reserve Force, who was released for a reason other than misconduct may wear uniform:

with the permission of an officer commanding a command or his designated authority and such other officers as may be designated by the Chief of the Defence Staff,

when attending a military entertainment or ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate; and

on other occasions with the permission of the Chief of the Defence Staff.
 

medic1sd

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i been told before to have more taxes taken off before you go on mata/ pata leave. is this true? if it is how can i go about getting this done? should i do it? how will it affect me now as we have some finicial issues which are manageable. and how many days of leave will i have come this apr? ( i am due in june)
 

ModlrMike

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I'm pretty sure, having previously spent years at your current unit, that there's someone in the OR that can give you a more correct answer than we can here.
 

Cansky

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If your having financial issues you may wish to engage your chain of command to find resources to help you before you go on mata/pata. 
 

Strike

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I don't know about taxes, but you will want to put a bit of money aside every month to pay back your pension.  Talk to your OR and they will work out how much based on how much time you will be on MATA/PATA. Now, you have the option of paying it back in monthly installments, but you will save more money by putting some aside and paying it back in one lump sum.  The difference in mine between a lump sum payback and monthly installments was something $1,500.
 
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