Name This Photo!!! - The AFV Recognition Thread

[vG]

VK 903b (Ausf H) armed with 50mm Pak 38 L/60 gun.?

vG

 

[vG]

The caption for that exact same photo in von Senger und Etterlin is:

"The VK 1602 (D) of 1941 was the prototype for the Leopard (light) with an opentopped turret and 5cm gun KwK L/60. Later fitted with a Puma turret. It did not go into prosuction."

I don't know which is right.

vG

 

[larry Strong]

I am under the impression it is a VK 903b (Ausf H) armed with 50mm Pak 38 L/60 gun. There is some discussion on a different forum as to wether this is what it is, or the VK-1601 mit eine 5-cm-KWK L-60. As you got both  the floor is yours.

Another photo for EBay on what I think is the same vehicle

 

[vG]

Ok here goes:

vG

 

[larry Strong]

Here you go:
Bussing NAG experimental vehicle

I am out of time today so the floor is open.

 

[vG]

Correct, one of the pre WWII prototypes of German wheeled AFVs.

vG

 

[larry Strong]

Obviously German but what was it used for?

 

[McG]

Obviously German but what was it used for?

BMP substitute for OPFOR on West German exercises?

 

[larry Strong]

BMP substitute for OPFOR on West German exercises  No

 

[Nfld Sapper]

is it swimable?

 

[vG]

Tank trainer for lack of real vehicles?

vG

 

[McG]

M113 substitute

 

[vG]

The painted on return rollers have exactly the same configuration as the M41 and the same five roadwheels. So it could be an M41 trainer?

vG

 

[Blackadder1916]

Obviously German but what was it used for?

I may be having a "deja vu moment all over again" but I'm sure I've seen this photo (or something similar) before on a forum (probably not this one).  But I haven't been able to find where I first saw it.  My memory isn't too good about it but I'll take a shot; also, the forum that discussed it might have been in German so I could be way off track.  From what I recall the odd paint job may have been done to simulate a tracked vehicle while the unit was awaiting new tracked vehicles or it may have been done because the unit's combat vehicles were a mix of wheels and tracks (trying to camouflage the combat power of the unit?).

As for the vehicle designation, that has me stumped so far.  However it is always a good guess (with a German wheeled vehicle) to question whether it was based on a Unimog chassis; maybe something like a UR-416

 

[ironduke57]

What it is under that mockup I have no idea, but I am quite sure that should display an HS-30. Probably the JPz3-3 variant with SS.11 ATGM´s.

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[geo]

heh... SS11B ATGM... now that's a piece of kit I haven't heard about in a long time....
Used to use the simulator.... you could deflect simulator missiles off the ground into the targets... I was doing great until the instructor figured out what I was doing

 

[Blackadder1916]

I haven't been able to find a pic or a reference to that specific vehicle yet, but I have found some references to "Übungspanzer" in the Bundeswehr (BW).  From what I gather (all the sites were in German and I was having flashbacks to my German language course and the disappointment of my teacher that all I would be able to do was order beer and unsuccessfully chat up women) when the BW was first constituted they had difficulty in keeping a sufficient percentage of their tracked armored vehicles available for training/exercise partially due to a lack of trained (and in uniform) mechanics.  One of their solutions was "Übungspanzer auf Radfahrzeuggestell" (exercise 'armoured' vehicles on wheeled chassis) or "panzerattrappen" (dummy tanks/armoured vehcles).  Less maintenance required.  According to one source there were two types "Kampfpanzer" und ""Schützenpanzer"; there 'might' have been more variants and there 'may' have been a direct visual correlation between the exercise vehicles and the actual armoured vehs they represented.  They were built on a Unimog chassis.  Most of the references indicate thay were used in the late 50s - early 60s and one poster on another forum said he had pics of his father with such vehicles during his service in the BW 1964-1965.

So if I want to really disappoint my former German teacher, the picture you provided may be an "Übungsschützenpanzer".

I was able to find (on an official BW website) a photo of a "kampfpanzer type" with the caption "Übungspanzer der Bundeswehr auf Lkw-Fahrgestell, Ende der 50er Jahre".

I was going to reserve that photo for a future challenge, but, what the hell!.

Edited to add:

May have found an official designation:
Übungsschützenpanzer (UebSPz) mit Panzer-Attrappenaufbau HS 30
and the tank variant Übungskampfpanzer (UebKPz) mit Panzer-Attrappenaufbau M 47 

Built on a Unimog:  Lkw 1,5t gl (Bw)  -  Mercedes-Benz Typ U-404 S

 

[ironduke57]

...
I was going to reserve that photo for a future challenge, but, what the hell!.
...

I already posted that one almost half a year ago in the "Hale's crazy little plan" Thread.

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[Blackadder1916]

Finally found some views of an Übungsschützenpanzer (actually additional views of the same vehicle and some of its comrades on the same exercise).  It was also referred to as a "Panzerattrappe HS 30".

 

[ironduke57]

It looks like Larry is busy so I would say go on Blackadder and post something new.

Regards,
ironduke57