Navy pers wearing black t-shirts in CADPAT

[painswessex]

I know this is a NAVY canforgen although my kind of rant is about a friend of mine who is posted to edmonton and put on his t-shirt when the canforgen came out then at a morning parade was pulled out and jacked up for wearing it. He replied i was only doing what the national directive said. The SGT replied well your a master seaman and should know better not to wear the shirt until we say so. Im sorry if a CANFORGEN states that "In the interem as an optional messure, navy DEU personnel who so wish, are authorised to acquire and wear at no cost to the crown a crew neck t-shirt without logos, jet black in colour,75 per cent cotton (plus minus 5 per cent)/25 per cent polyester(plus minus 5 per cent)"

So unless 1 SVC BN is all of a sudden more operational then 2 SVC BN then the SGT is wrong for jacking up my buddy. And i thought Petawawa was the hard a** posting. I have had no trouble wearing my shirt. As soon as i get a hold of the name tapes and slip ons i am wearing them.

GO NAVY!!!!!!

 

[armyvern]

I know this is a NAVY canforgen although my kind of rant is about a friend of mine who is posted to edmonton and put on his t-shirt when the canforgen came out then at a morning parade was pulled out and jacked up for wearing it. He replied i was only doing what the national directive said. The SGT replied well your a master seaman and should know better not to wear the shirt until we say so. Im sorry if a CANFORGEN states that "In the interem as an optional messure, navy DEU personnel who so wish, are authorised to acquire and wear at no cost to the crown a crew neck t-shirt without logos, jet black in colour,75 per cent cotton (plus minus 5 per cent)/25 per cent polyester(plus minus 5 per cent)"

So unless 1 SVC BN is all of a sudden more operational then 2 SVC BN then the SGT is wrong for jacking up my buddy. And i thought Petawawa was the hard a** posting. I have had no trouble wearing my shirt. As soon as i get a hold of the name tapes and slip ons i am wearing them.

GO NAVY!!!!!!

http://vcds.dwan.dnd.ca/vcds-exec/pubs/canforgen/2007/027-07_e.asp

Para 2 of the message:

DISTINCT NAVY IDENTIFIERS ARE APPROVED FOR WEAR WITH CADPAT/LWCC IN CANADA DEPENDENT ON THE OPERATIONAL CONTEXT OF THE UNIT - IE. IN NON-TACTICAL SITUATIONS AS DEEMED BY THE OPERATIONAL COMMANDER. AUTHORIZATION ON OVERSEAS OPERATIONS WILL BE AT THE DISCRETION OF THE THEATRE COMMANDER BASED ON THE OPERATIONAL SITUATION

In short, as per the AF blue t-shirts, the decision on whether or not they are approved to wear rests with the operational enviornment of the Unit in which the member is serving, and shall be worn if that unit approves it as dress. This is what happens when people don't ensure they read the entire contents of message.

Whether or not a Unit chooses to approve, is up to them, as directed by the Canforgen. As for your buddy getting jacked up, had he read the above para of the message, he should have realized that he should have asked his CoC whether or not the dress had been approved for wear by them before making his own command decision to show up in it. That decision by your buddy is not the Sgts problem or mistake.

Edits: typos...etc

 

[painswessex]

Hello i read the whole message and i know what it says. IF the CO of the unit does not wish his personnel to wear the items then he should say so. No offical corispondance from the CO was passed down through the chain. I wont say what i am really thinking about the army right now.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I'm curious, did he ask his chain of command if they were aware of the message?  Or if the CO was going to make a decision on it?  Or did he just show up dressed like that knowing that some of his superiors might react strongly if standards of dress had been a current concern within the unit and they were not aware of any changes authorized within the unit?

 

[Teflon]

I wont say what i am really thinking about the army right now

:crybaby:

 

[armyvern]

Hello i read the whole message and i know what it says. IF the CO of the unit does not wish his personnel to wear the items then he should say so. No offical corispondance from the CO was passed down through the chain. I wont say what i am really thinking about the army right now.

As a sup tech you know full well that clothing is worn as authorized.

Since when when does a corporal decide what his Unit dress will be?? For that is exactly what your friend did.
His CO obviously DID NOT authorize it for wear, thus your buddy was NOT authorized to wear it.

I highly suggest that you read the CANFORGEN again (they are messages from the CDS by the way, not the Navy as your original post indicates). What does para 2 say?? Read it...

It does NOT say "you can wear it if you want until told differently in writing by the CO of your Unit." It quite clearly says that you can wear it IF your Unit CO approves it. The official correspondance IS the CANFORGEN, it IS what is applicable. IF the CO didn't approve it for wear, it WAS NOT authorized for wear.

He doesn't need to "NOT AUTHORIZE" it for wear. Read carefully...he needs to "APPROVE IT" for wear.

 

[painswessex]

Yes you are right labrarian, to a point. So you are saying that when the cadpat came out to issue to the troops that no one was allowed to wear it until the units said so? And i also know that CANFORGENS are national i was just meaning it was a NAVY type topic thats all if you look at the canforgen date and title you will notice the issuing authority was CMS. You said that i should read the canforgen again, Para 2, like you refered to, staes that aproved navy identifiers for all navy DEU personnel who are REQUIRED to wear CADPAT/LWCC are as follows: etc etc.... i believe you wanted to direct me to para 3.




He did the same as i did read the message put on the black shirt and carried a copy of the CANFORGEN arround if anyone questioned it. IMO i think they were just upset that people acctually read the CANFORGENS

I belive that the CANFORGEN can be interpeted in different ways, I read it as if the unit is in a tactical situation then it is green everything.

This is getting out of hand i was just posting a rant like so many others do and got shot all to hell just like always....RE some of my posts in the CSOR CANSOFCOM forum. 

 

[Teflon]

IMO i think they were just upset that people actually read the CANFORGENS

If they didn't want people to read them then they wouldn't produce them and if they only wanted the higher chain of command to read them then they would be sent only to them

I believe that the CANFORGEN can be interpeted in different ways

Yup, the wrong way or the way the CoC does

This is getting out of hand i was just posting a rant like so many others do and got shot all to hell just like always

Just pointing some things out to you, but since you are talking about something getting out of hand here, this is all about the colour of a t-shirt right? Not comfort or usefullness or functionality? Just colour?  :

 

[painswessex]

to me Its all about being proud to wear the Navy uniform, and anything i can wear to make it knowen that i am a proud sailor then i will. Its bad enough i have to wear CADPAT instead of my NCD's

 

[Sub_Guy]

I would like to think that the COC is up to date on all the CANFORGENS, so when this message came there should have been some direction from up top directing the Navy fellas what to do, to prevent such sillyness as a good jack up!

It sucks getting jacked up, but I probably would have inquired through my COC as to what is going on before putting on the black T.


But then again I do like catching people off guard!  Two thumbs up for that!  You can bet a decision will be made rather quickly!

 

[284_226]

Yes you are right labrarian, to a point. So you are saying that when the cadpat came out to issue to the troops that no one was allowed to wear it until the units said so? And i also know that CANFORGENS are national i was just meaning it was a NAVY type topic thats all if you look at the canforgen date and title you will notice the issuing authority was CMS. You said that i should read the canforgen again, Para 2, like you refered to, staes that aproved navy identifiers for all navy DEU personnel who are REQUIRED to wear CADPAT/LWCC are as follows: etc etc.... i believe you wanted to direct me to para 3.

He did the same as i did read the message put on the black shirt and carried a copy of the CANFORGEN arround if anyone questioned it. IMO i think they were just upset that people acctually read the CANFORGENS

I belive that the CANFORGEN can be interpeted in different ways, I read it as if the unit is in a tactical situation then it is green everything. 

FWIW, painswessex, I agree with the way you interpreted it.  The CANFORGEN issued authorization, and it was left up to the operational commanders of the units to provide restrictive conditions.

 

[painswessex]

thanks 284_286, I wore the shirt on my own without direction from up top cause i am tired of being called corpral and correcting people to the fact that i have a very tiny anchor on my name tape that says i am Navy. The black shirt, slip ons, and name tape is a VERY welcome addition to the uniform. Comfort, usefullness, and functionallity....You Bet ya! Comfort...i dont have to wear a scratchy green shirt they bought from the lowest bidder....usefullness....I now dont have to corect people to call me Leading Seaman instead of corpral....functionality.... who cares its black and i love it.....

GO NAVY!!!!

 

[Teflon]

If they didn't notice the anchor on your name tag, why would they notice your black t-shirt?


is it really an identity crisis thing or just the colour of your t-shirt that has you all whiny?

 

[painswessex]

Have you seen the guys wearing a black shirt yet? If you have then you would see that it is very noticable.
Kind of like when we wear our DEU's and make the whole parade look that much better.


hows that for whiny....

 

[Teflon]

hows that for whiny....

You are definately setting the standard quite high for whiny, for sure to earn you a top third spot on the whiny course!

It's t-shirt colour - GET OVER IT and find something else to get all worked up about

 

[painswessex]

it has nothing to do with the colour of the shirt...i was saying that i thought it was stupid to be jacked up for wearing a peice of clothing that a canforgen tells you that you can.

 

[Teflon]

If authorized by your CoC, if it was then the person who did the jacking was mistaken and the CoC will correct him/her, if it isn't authorized by your CoC well then jacking deserved, jacking delivered

It is about the colour of a t-shirt, (green t-shirt - black t-shirt) the only different thing between those two sides is colour

This conversation continuing is pretty pointless so feel free to have the last word here painswessex but if you wish/require a reply from me then PM me as I've tired of wasting bandwidth on this

 

[MikeM]

You work in an army environment, big deal if someone calls you corporal. The same can be said for people who call BDRs CPLs, etc.. big deal over nothing.

 

[ZipperHead]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: This is ARMY.CA.

Do you think you are going to get an easy ride here with your "GO NAVY!!! the army is stupid!!!!" rant?!?! You seem to hate the army, but frequent a site devoted to the army. And the post wasn't even in the "Navy" sub-forum. The navy doth protest too much, methinks....

Al

 

[CdnArtyWife]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: This is ARMY.CA.

Do you think you are going to get an easy ride here with your "GO NAVY!!! the army is stupid!!!!" rant?!?! You seem to hate the army, but frequent a site devoted to the army. And the post wasn't even in the "Navy" sub-forum. The navy doth protest too much, methinks....

Al

Al,

You forgot to add GO ARMOURED!!!! at the end.  ;D *snicker snicker*

Cheers,

CAW