Navy to replace official Heart of Oak march with ‘more inclusive’ music

[PPCLI Guy]

Meanwhile, doing exactly what the CAF expects them to be doing with their 'meagre resources': posturing driven career enhancement



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This required no resources (and the locations for observances were centrally directed). It was about taking a moment to acknowledge an event that was established in the US in 1999:

What is Transgender Day of Remembrance?

Transgender Day of Remembrance is marked every Nov. 20 and began in 1999 to honor Rita Hester, a trans woman who was killed in Massachusetts.

One person's "posturing driven career enhancement" is another person's statement that all soldiers matter.

 

[brihard]

You mean this one?

I came here to say this.

 

[FSTO]

I saw something online authored by the now retired Commander addressing the briefing note and their reasoning behind their efforts to replace or change the March. If I can find it, I'll post it.

There was some historical yoga in their response to the BN and that was also reflected in the recent press release.
Ie: The conquest was bad for indigenous people? How about Columbus running into the Windward Islands; that was bad.

The Brits could have done to New France what they did to Acadia but they didn’t.

New France was doomed anyway you look at it. The British to the south of them was growing at pace that New France could not match.

The Proclamation of 1763, (to the Yanks known as the Intolerable Acts) gave an occupied group of people a degree of compassion annd retention of rights unheard of in the 18th Century.

And finally, without British help, does anyone think the puritanical Protestant 13 colonists would have given Quebec an ounce of thought if they occupied them? A colder Louisiana anyone?

Keep the tune, get rid of the lyrics.

 

[Stoker]

This was posted online by the author as an open letter and explains their reasoning. Makes sense. Someone did a ATI and posted the briefing notes on REDDIT which at the time caused a stir.

 

[JLB50]

Posts like this make me think about the people who complain that the military is a “social experiment”.

To paraphrase a comment about the US military being “a social experiment” (and I really wish I saved it), of course it has parts of being a social experiment. The US military was racially integrated before broad US society was integrated. The US military also brings together subcultures that would normally not be in close contact with each other. Those are very deliberate social experiments.


And that may be a COA. But remembering the short-lived backlash when a couple of words changed in our national anthem, I’m sure there will be some people mad about that change too.

Edit to add: This got me to a humourous (ok to me) rabbit hole. Heart of Oak wasn’t originally a military march - it was from a pantomime.


So yes, it’s “historic” in that it’s old, but it was essentially a pop song of the time. I wonder if in 200 years, whatever the incarnation of the Royal Marines Band will play The Lonely Island’s “I’m on a Boat” as a historic parade march

The American patriotic song My Country ‘Tis of Thee is, of course, a steal from God Save The King (Queen), which is basically a steal from one of Hayden’s compositions. And then there’s Yankee Doodle which was originally a British song poking fun at the American upstarts. Oh, yes, if I recall my American history correctly, the Star Spangled Banner melody was originally itself a British beer drinking song. The American don’t seem to mind taking a good, existing melody and making it theirs for myth-making purposes…and they seem to have done pretty well by doing so.

 

[Furniture]

This was posted online by the author as an open letter and explains their reasoning. Makes sense. Someone did a ATI and posted the briefing notes on REDDIT which at the time caused a stir.
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BLUF: A few words in the lyrics, that are not ever used in an official capacity, are out of touch with modern sensibilities and current day objectives, therefore we should make a new song because "today".

This sort of argument is very much about removing traditions, by cherry picking the worst parts of them and ignore the good parts.

Changing the song won't remove toxic leaders, or in any appreciable way make the RCN a better place to work, but it will remove one more link to the past.

Edit: I suspect there would be far less resistance to this change if the RCN was engaging a composer with a proven record of creating inspiring and "epic" sounding music like John Williams, or Hans Zimmer. Instead, we will get a composer that has made nothing of note, and we will end up with dull and uninspiring music by committee to replace a beloved and well know song.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Couldn't Canada's (abundant) official language community do something with an old established Navy song like this one?

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's a well written reason for the BN, I especially appreciated the Ted Lasso reference.

Speaking about making the navy a better place I'd like to know how this probe turned out.

Minister orders probe after ex-officer accused of sexual misconduct gets job at naval base

 

[medicineman]

Couldn't Canada's (abundant) official language community do something with an old established Navy song like this one?

Quick march of the Royal Marines and USN...I seem to recall that the official/unofficial slow march of the RCN is the slow march of the RM...which is the march of the Russian Preobrajensky Guards...

I did note that the RAN divested itself of Heart of Oak in favour of "The Royal Australian Navy March"

.

I've heard some folks suggesting an instrumental version of "Barrett's Privateers"...can think of worse I suppose .

 

[Edward Campbell]

I have no objection to getting rid of 'Heart of Oak' and/or the :"British Grenadiers;' the aim of both, after all, was, and remains, to some extent, to p!ss off the French who, very arguably, remain, as a French diplomat said when referring to another nation (but one with considerable, proven, military prowess) "a shitty little country." But I think it's easier to recycle than to create anew.

 

[The Bread Guy]

That's a well written reason for the BN, I especially appreciated the Ted Lasso reference.

Speaking about making the navy a better place I'd like to know how this probe turned out.

Minister orders probe after ex-officer accused of sexual misconduct gets job at naval base

Latest public sources (assuming we believe the CBC these days) is he was punted ....
"Defence department dismisses former navy commander from civilian role after review"
... with a more recent account saying this (highlights mine):

 

[dimsum]

I did note that the RAN divested itself of Heart of Oak in favour of "The Royal Australian Navy March"

.

I've heard some folks suggesting an instrumental version of "Barrett's Privateers"...can think of worse I suppose .

The Aussies nearly chose “Waltzing Matilda” as their national anthem in the 1970s, but lost out to “Advance Australia Fair”.

Although to be fair, the theme and lyrics wouldn’t have been very appropriate even then.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

This sort of argument is very much about removing traditions, by cherry picking the worst parts of them and ignore the good parts.

Changing the song won't remove toxic leaders, or in any appreciable way make the RCN a better place to work, (from your perspective as a presumably male PO1 with over two decades of service) but it will remove one more link to the past (of exclusion, misogyny, and a peculiar command climate)

It won't make it better for you. But how about the ~11% of the RCN who are female? Or prospective recruits in an RCN that is critically short of personnel?

From the RCN Association:

There are 760 women currently serving in the ranks of the RCN, representing 11.3% of the navy's regular force, a number lower than the average of women serving in the CAF in general.

I wonder why that is?

 

[Fabius]

Those above numbers do not match the GoC, DND, or CAF statistics.
Official data has female participation in the RCN at 20.9 %. Yes that is regular and reserve, but the overall CAF reg and res rates don’t seem different enough that the reserve would be able to make up a reg force RCN rate of 11%.

For comparison here are some various other Navies stats from 2021-2023. Our numbers are not greatly different than peer services.

Royal Navy - 10.7% female

US Navy - 20% Female

RAN - 21.5% Female

French Navy - 16% Female

Danish Navy 9.9%Female

Just for some context.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Latest public sources (assuming we believe the CBC these days) is he was punted ....
"Defence department dismisses former navy commander from civilian role after review"
... with a more recent account saying this (highlights mine):
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Thanks. I went through some of that and it doesn't look like I can make the point I wanted to make about priorities and such.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Thanks. I went through some of that and it doesn't look like I can make the point I wanted to make about priorities and such.

Well, that second CBC piece linked shows buddy isn't alone in having slipped through the cracks, so the issue still seems to be far from down to zero yet.

 

[markppcli]

So in getting rid of this as part of our tradition of repeating British “things.” Can we reexamine the tradition of simply naming regiments after British ones and adding “of Canada.” Surely the costs of kilts, extra work in having highland dress and marches, is a factor. Similarly I don’t think the historic links to Scotland are really huge factors in recruiting anymore.

 

[daftandbarmy]

This was posted online by the author as an open letter and explains their reasoning. Makes sense. Someone did a ATI and posted the briefing notes on REDDIT which at the time caused a stir.
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Nice note, and it's not this guy's fault of course, but well intentioned and one off 'tokenism' like this (and flag raising photo ops or drooling over new uniforms and badges) doesn't work and only serves to erode trust and authenticity. Which a pretty good description of a 'design to fail' approach ..

Five Leading Ways DEI Strategy Is Designed to Fail:​

1. Superficial Diversity Metrics: DEI efforts focusing solely on masking diversity numbers or using superficial diversity metrics without addressing systemic issues and underlying biases are bound to fail. Merely checking boxes without a genuine commitment to inclusion undermines the essence of DEI.
2. Tokenism and Performative Actions: When organizations engage in tokenism by making symbolic gestures of diversity without effecting meaningful change, it erodes trust and authenticity. Performative actions that lack substance or tangible impact contribute to DEI failure.
3. Limited Ownership and Accountability: Progress is hindered if DEI initiatives are solely the responsibility of designated DEI officers or a single leader rather than being embraced as a collective effort throughout the organization. The lack of accountability from all levels can prevent the necessary cultural shift.
4. Ignoring Systemic Barriers: Failing to address the underlying systemic barriers and structural inequalities perpetuates the cycle of exclusion. DEI efforts must go beyond individual interventions to challenge and transform practices and policies.
5. Inadequate Leadership Training and Education: Without proper training on inclusive leadership, and diversity education, leaders may struggle to understand the importance of DEI or how to create an inclusive environment. Inadequate leadership education can lead to resistance and hinder progress.

DEI Strategy Was Always Designed to Fail

DEI Strategy was always designed to fail because organizations never invested in solutions only tactics. 10 ways to determine organizational DEI readiness

inclusionlearninglab.com

 

[Furniture]

It won't make it better for you. But how about the ~11% of the RCN who are female? Or prospective recruits in an RCN that is critically short of personnel?

From the RCN Association:

There are 760 women currently serving in the ranks of the RCN, representing 11.3% of the navy's regular force, a number lower than the average of women serving in the CAF in general.

I wonder why that is?

I suspect it has more to do with living in ships at sea than with Heart of Oak, but feel free to provide any evidence to the contrary... Shall we do a look into why more women choose to not be in the infantry? Perhaps there is a song somewhere we can blame for that as well?

The reasons people choose to serve in any particular branch/element are many, but the march past is not one of them.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I suspect it has more to do with living in ships at sea than with Heart of Oak, but feel free to provide any evidence to the contrary... Shall we do a look into why more women choose to not be in the infantry? Perhaps there is a song somewhere we can blame for that as well?

The reasons people choose to serve in any particular branch/element are many, but the march past is not one of them.

Oh, I'll go!!

Because they're much, much smarter than people like me?