Navy to replace official Heart of Oak march with ‘more inclusive’ music

[dimsum]

Me too but for different reasons.

In my opinion everything from the get go is about establishing a hierarchy and pecking order. Kids on their infantry DP1 will brag about being "rifleman number 1"

In a light infantry battalion it's rifle company -> jump company-> recce platoon -> sniper or pathfinder.

I see the "you're a warrior" stuff as low hanging fruit the CoC uses for that we'rebetter than X stuff. Years later I recall an infantry OC giving that warrior speech to us while on an American base prior to an attack. I looked over and seen the kid who didn't bring his jacket or sleeping back to the desert/mountains sitting there picking his nose and eating it and thinking to myself "yeah, right".

Fair - and in all of the services the Army (and especially the Combat Arms) that would be the most appropriate use of the term, even if I fundamentally disagree with it.

But how about the techs fixing aircraft? The FSAs processing claims? Or, in the US, the Space Force folks? I would argue that while they have a place in the overall “warfighting” culture, they are not warriors nor warfighters, and should not be termed so.

Should the Space Force Have a Warfighting-Centric Culture? | Aerospace Center for Space Policy and Strategy

The Space Force plays a significant and unique role in securing U.S. national interests. How should warfighting fit into the Space Force culture?

csps.aerospace.org

 

[dapaterson]

Few years ago I recall an infantry OC giving that warrior speech and looking over and seen the kid who didn't bring his jacket or sleeping back to the exercise sitting there picking his nose and eating it and thinking to myself "yeah, right".

And today he's the RSM.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

At the risk of slight doxxing, can confirm.

I remember a few years ago filling out surveys about whether I was treated differently, etc and I always said “no”. Because literally I was not. I don’t think I got promoted faster or slower, or got this or that task because of my ethnicity.

But, later I also realized I never really stopped and thought about the overall question - they never asked if I consciously or unconsciously changed my behaviour to fit in, like the example up top. That got me thinking about other examples that came up, and while I thought it was just “the shit you go through in training” - now I know it’s not right.

I am blue eyed and blondish, but I was still a misfit and had to have some of that beaten out of me (literally) So I to had to change my behaviour to fit in. I think everyone has to to some extent, just that some people have to do more than the others.

I hadn't given the "warrior" thing much thought, that thinking was not prevalent in my time, I think the SF types and the WWII hero's were what we wanted to emulate. Oddly enough the "warrior" concept is much more of a indigenous thing than a British thing. The British had learned long ago a organized society beats a warrior society 100% of the time. Those that emulate Sparta, don't realize they were a bunch of bisexual guys, who depended completely on slavery for their society to exist and needed the more organized City States to keep them going. Those same City States eventually defeated Sparta as well.

 

[RangerRay]

To me, the “warrior” is the antithesis of the professional disciplined soldier/sailor/aircrew that we want in our military. Warriors were a grab-bag of men a tribal society could round up on short notice and not known for their discipline. As Colin said above, the Spartan mythology is mostly that, myth.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I would argue that the initiative costs less in resources than, say, the peaked cap change. Most of the work would be done by musicians (who would probably love a chance to write music) and they’re already paid by the CAF.

But then we'd have to not learn lyrics to another march past most people in the RCN don't know the words to already.

Usually it goes a bit like this

"Heart of Oak .... da da da... la la la hum along...Steady boys, Steady! Ruh ruh ruh la la la, la la!"

 

[RangerRay]

Does anyone know the words to any march pasts? I always thought they were just tunes without lyrics…

 

[FSTO]

Not knowing the lyrics is a form of micro aggression.

 

[daftandbarmy]

At the risk of slight doxxing, can confirm.

I remember a few years ago filling out surveys about whether I was treated differently, etc and I always said “no”. Because literally I was not. I don’t think I got promoted faster or slower, or got this or that task because of my ethnicity.

But, later I also realized I never really stopped and thought about the overall question - they never asked if I consciously or unconsciously changed my behaviour to fit in, like the example up top. That got me thinking about other examples that came up, and while I thought it was just “the shit you go through in training” - now I know it’s not right.

But to @Underway ’s points, I have always fundamentally disagreed with the “warrior / warfighter” term over soldier / sailor / air person. I have said this here before, but warrior / warfighter implies that their main job is to fight in a war. What happens if there isn’t a shooting war? Are they worthless then?

It's part of yet another load of ego centric, cult building BS pumped out by the US military, of course e.g., Spartans anyone?

Stop Calling Us Warriors​

But there’s a problem with all this “warrior” rhetoric; warriors are not soldiers. Warriors don’t transition, because warriors are part of a class. Warriors don’t have tasks, because tasks are antithetical to the undisciplined and chaotic warrior. Essentially, stop calling us warriors.

Stop Calling Us Warriors

If you’ve been in the Army longer than five minutes, you’ve probably been called “warrior” already. Or maybe “hero,” usually used sarcastically when referring to…

angrystaffofficer.com

Stop Calling Us Warriors

If you’ve been in the Army longer than five minutes, you’ve probably been called “warrior” already. Or maybe “hero,” usually used sarcastically when referring to…

angrystaffofficer.com

 

[markppcli]

Does anyone know the words to any march pasts? I always thought they were just tunes without lyrics…

It’s a long way to Tipperary, it’s a long way to gooo
Something. Something something
Sweetest girl I know

 

[Jarnhamar]

I can picture the Navy sailing around with the sailors belting out this shanty.