New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Czech_pivo]

You can also look to the RFA to see the pitfalls of letting your key logistical capabilities fall to a unionized civilian workforce.....

Now that sounds worrisome.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You can also look to the RFA to see the pitfalls of letting your key logistical capabilities fall to a unionized civilian workforce.....

Now that sounds worrisome.

I think you underestimate how permeated our (the CAFs) logistical capabilities have been by a unionized workforce.

Having said that no one having an easy time getting people to sea right now. Be they Navies or Merchant.

 

[dapaterson]

I think you underestimate how permeated our (the CAFs) logistical capabilities have been by a unionized workforce.

That's not a nice thing to say about the RCLS

 

[Halifax Tar]

That's not a nice thing to say about the RCLS

It truly wasn't meant as a slight. Just stating the fact our logistics branch is very civilian heavy.

 

[Kirkhill]

You can also look to the RFA to see the pitfalls of letting your key logistical capabilities fall to a unionized civilian workforce.....

And some place between the RN and the RFA lies the RNVR.

Those RFA ships could also be manned by RNVR crews, as could Ships Taken Up From Trade.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Mind you if the crews are civilian working for a company, then the pension obligations don't fall onto the government/CAF.

 

[Stoker]

Many people would have no issue seeing both Joint Support Ships crewed primarily by a government civilian mariner workforce. The caveat would be retaining key Royal Canadian Navy personnel onboard, including the Commanding Officer, Naval Technical Officer, Naval Technical Chief, Deck Officer, communicators, and a selection of other trades and ranks because these are valuable training bunks.

The Commanding Officer would be the most important position to retain in uniform. Keeping military command of the ship would ensure operational decisions remain driven by mission requirements rather than commercial considerations which has been a issue in the past. It would also prevent situations where a civilian master or contractor management might choose to curtail or suspend operations for reasons that conflict with operational requirements.

A hybrid crewing model could certainly help address ongoing personnel shortages within the RCN by allowing government civilian mariners to handle much of the navigation, engineering, and ship support functions, while military personnel focus on command, force protection, replenishment operations, aviation support, communications, and integration with naval task groups. You would need iron clad arrangements in place to spell out exactly what is expected and what would happen in time of conflict.

Unlike the arrangement aboard MV Asterix, military command authority would remain firmly embedded within the ship's chain of command. This would ensure operational decisions are made by naval leadership and not influenced by commercial or contractual considerations. Given the personnel challenges facing the RCN, such a model could provide a practical way to keep the Joint Support Ships fully crewed while preserving operational flexibility and mission readiness.

 

[YZT580]

Many people would have no issue seeing both Joint Support Ships crewed primarily by a government civilian mariner workforce. The caveat would be retaining key Royal Canadian Navy personnel onboard, including the Commanding Officer, Naval Technical Officer, Naval Technical Chief, Deck Officer, communicators, and a selection of other trades and ranks because these are valuable training bunks.

The Commanding Officer would be the most important position to retain in uniform. Keeping military command of the ship would ensure operational decisions remain driven by mission requirements rather than commercial considerations which has been a issue in the past. It would also prevent situations where a civilian master or contractor management might choose to curtail or suspend operations for reasons that conflict with operational requirements.

A hybrid crewing model could certainly help address ongoing personnel shortages within the RCN by allowing government civilian mariners to handle much of the navigation, engineering, and ship support functions, while military personnel focus on command, force protection, replenishment operations, aviation support, communications, and integration with naval task groups. You would need iron clad arrangements in place to spell out exactly what is expected and what would happen in time of conflict.

Unlike the arrangement aboard MV Asterix, military command authority would remain firmly embedded within the ship's chain of command. This would ensure operational decisions are made by naval leadership and not influenced by commercial or contractual considerations. Given the personnel challenges facing the RCN, such a model could provide a practical way to keep the Joint Support Ships fully crewed while preserving operational flexibility and mission readiness.

what happens with the civilian side of the crew when the ship is taken into a combat zone as happened with Iraq?

 

[Stoker]

what happens with the civilian side of the crew when the ship is taken into a combat zone as happened with Iraq?

I would imagine that would depend on the contract or it may mean personnel are landed and military personnel taken on.

 

[Underway]

The reason its a full military crew is because of the doctrinal use case.

PRO is expected to be able to go into the combat zone and resupply there. Asterix is expected to stay out of the combat zone and have ships leave to resupply and then go back on station.

Not saying PRO will always do that, but that's a potential use case the RCN wants to be able to fill. Combat resupply. Not a lot of other navies do that. The other thing is the PRO won't be protected by a Carrier Task Group, so she is more vulnerable then say the RN or USN supply vessels. So with the expectation of being in the middle of the fight PRO needs to be able to recover battle damage.

Those tasks are better done with an all military crew neatly sidestepping the civilian questions.

 

[Stoker]

The reason its a full military crew is because of the doctrinal use case.

PRO is expected to be able to go into the combat zone and resupply there. Asterix is expected to stay out of the combat zone and have ships leave to resupply and then go back on station.

Not saying PRO will always do that, but that's a potential use case the RCN wants to be able to fill. Combat resupply. Not a lot of other navies do that. The other thing is the PRO won't be protected by a Carrier Task Group, so she is more vulnerable then say the RN or USN supply vessels. So with the expectation of being in the middle of the fight PRO needs to be able to recover battle damage.

Those tasks are better done with an all military crew neatly sidestepping the civilian questions.

Federal Fleet is saying that they can and are willing to go into the Combat zone, they keep calling themselves a Combat Support Ship after all. They make a lot of claims.

 

[YZT580]

Federal Fleet is saying that they can and are willing to go into the Combat zone, they keep calling themselves a Combat Support Ship after all. They make a lot of claims.

silly question: Did they ask the guys on the ship and is it in their contract?

 

[Stoker]

silly question: Did they ask the guys on the ship and is it in their contract?

Haven't a clue. Most likely its the RCN not willing to accept the risk.

 

[Kirkhill]

If I understand correctly the ferry MV Norland that transported 3 Para to Bomb Alley in San Carlos Water in 1982 were all civilian merchant marine volunteers that were given the opportunity to disembark at Ascension. Nobody left.

None of the crew had any military training.