New Dress Regs 🤣

[FSTO]

If you meet an asshole in the morning, you've met an asshole. If your meeting assholes all day? Then maybe you're the asshole?

This Raylan Givens quote is useful in all sorts of organizations.

 

[btrudy]

By "treating everyone shitty" I meant the rigors of basic training and battle school for example. You know, when someone yells at you for any reason whatsoever in the training environment? That weeded out a lot of people that needed to be weeded out.

The "bad leadership" equation is another topic altogether and I agree there is that too, just like any other organization the world over.

When we start them out in an environment which defaults to yelling any time there is a "screw up" (and let's face it, quite a lot of the time said screw up is merely a failure to meet a purposefully set unattainable goal), that sets the standard from the get go for what is considered good leadership, leading to a whole lot of toxicity down the line.

Yelling doesn't make people better at their jobs. Weeding people out because you didn't really bother trying to make them better, and just bellowed instead also means we're wasting a lot of opportunity.


The CAF as a whole needs to get better at mentorship, especially at the very beginning.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

THAT is the crux of the issue. All Canadian kids see is that our gear is broken, our military is short people, our government leaders seem not to care and there seems to be no indications that those 3 things are changing anytime soon. Why would any kid think about joining this clown show.

Imagine what our allies think of us as a fighting force…

 

[QV]

When we start them out in an environment which defaults to yelling any time there is a "screw up" (and let's face it, quite a lot of the time said screw up is merely a failure to meet a purposefully set unattainable goal), that sets the standard from the get go for what is considered good leadership, leading to a whole lot of toxicity down the line.

Yelling doesn't make people better at their jobs. Weeding people out because you didn't really bother trying to make them better, and just bellowed instead also means we're wasting a lot of opportunity.


The CAF as a whole needs to get better at mentorship, especially at the very beginning.

Substitute "yelling" for creating stressful and challenging environment that includes the application of raised voices and loud noises. Applying hardship is necessary when attempting to turn civilians into soldiers who will hopefully withstand the rigors of war. Unlimited liability doesn't come cheaply. You can mentor later after you've sorted the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Halifax Tar]

When we start them out in an environment which defaults to yelling any time there is a "screw up" (and let's face it, quite a lot of the time said screw up is merely a failure to meet a purposefully set unattainable goal), that sets the standard from the get go for what is considered good leadership, leading to a whole lot of toxicity down the line.

Yelling doesn't make people better at their jobs. Weeding people out because you didn't really bother trying to make them better, and just bellowed instead also means we're wasting a lot of opportunity.


The CAF as a whole needs to get better at mentorship, especially at the very beginning.

The idea behind it is to create a safe but adverse and stressful environment to judge the candidates ability's to follow orders or solve minor problems in.

Its a tried, tested and truth method all over the world. Dumbing it down will only bite from behind us on the other side.

 

[Remius]

When we start them out in an environment which defaults to yelling any time there is a "screw up" (and let's face it, quite a lot of the time said screw up is merely a failure to meet a purposefully set unattainable goal), that sets the standard from the get go for what is considered good leadership, leading to a whole lot of toxicity down the line.

Yelling doesn't make people better at their jobs. Weeding people out because you didn't really bother trying to make them better, and just bellowed instead also means we're wasting a lot of opportunity.


The CAF as a whole needs to get better at mentorship, especially at the very beginning.

Quick question. Have you ever instructed on a basic training or junior leadership course?

 

[Kilted]

Substitute "yelling" for creating stressful and challenging environment that includes the application of raised voices and loud noises. Applying hardship is necessary when attempting to turn civilians into soldiers who will hopefully withstand the rigors of war. Unlimited liability doesn't come cheaply. You can mentor later after you've sorted the wheat from the chaff.

Although, unfortunately, the way things are going, raising your voice for any reason will soon be considered harassment. RSO's on ranges will soon need to get special permission from their Brigade commander to talk loud enough for troops to hear them on the range.

 

[coolintheshade]

... but that part was introduced years ago.


Given our current recruitment and retention issues, I think it is quite clear that we need to put in effort to expand our recruiting pool beyond those who are just already "attracted to military life". This change can be a part of that initiative.

More to the point, I think it is overall more helpful to stop acting like a career in the military needs to become an all encompassing part of your lifestyle (including affects on appearance when off duty). Treat it more like a career and make it worth people's while instead of expecting to get a bunch of people who'll want to make it their entire life busting down our doors.

Bingo.....wiener wiener, Oktoberfest dinner

 

[coolintheshade]

Exactly. This will attract a very small minority and alienate your base recruitment group - white males, who will find these new changes ridiculous. God speed CAF, it can’t get any worse, right?

Huh, come again and what does this even mean? So, CAF should just continue to keep it all 'WHITE' then like they've always done, IOT appease white males? I guess this is while most police forces are full of white males. Got it

 

[Navy_Pete]

Is there any change on the beard policy?

Yes, the wearing of sideburns, beards, moustaches and goatees, or combination of style, is authorized for all members of the CAF from recruitment to release. There is no maximum or minimum length. Only, they must be kept neatly groomed and symmetrical in style while always complying with safety requirements and operational requirements.

Can CAF members be asked to shave their facial hair?

Yes, Commanders of Commands, Task Force Commanders, Formation Commanders and Commanding Officers retain the right to order restrictions on the wearing of facial hair to meet safety and operational requirements. This instruction does not supersede Federal or National safety codes or regulations.

And after almost a year, still radio silence from RCN safety reminding COs that anyone wearing an SCBA has to be clean shaven. At this point will be sitting back with popcorn on 6 Sept to see if this gets escalated right to the MND if the RCN decides to not follow CAF policy/Canadian OSHA requirements.

 

[QV]

Huh, come again and what does this even mean? So, CAF should just continue to keep it all 'WHITE' then like they've always done, IOT appease white males? I guess this is while most police forces are full of white males. Got it

That is not an honest inference. The CAF and police forces are "full of white males" because of two general facts: demographics and occupations that interest males.

 

[Remius]

That is not an honest inference. The CAF and police forces are "full of white males" because of two general facts: demographics and occupations that interest males.

Anecdotal story on my part. In another lifetime OPS recruiters took a recruiter course we were running. Their applicant pool had dried up and had no waiting lists and the quality of applicants had dropped significantly. They needed to change things up.

Several reasons for that were identified.

1) they wrongfully assumed that people would come to them.
2) they never attended local recruiting or job fairs. Peel regional, OPP and even the Edmonton police would be present at Ottawa U and Carleton U job fairs and OPS was never there
3) their recruiting presentation was all about the applicant process and not about what made OPS special or different

And…

4) they had the reputation that “white males” need not apply. So they didn’t. And they all went to the competition.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

When we start them out in an environment which defaults to yelling any time there is a "screw up" (and let's face it, quite a lot of the time said screw up is merely a failure to meet a purposefully set unattainable goal), that sets the standard from the get go for what is considered good leadership, leading to a whole lot of toxicity down the line.

Yelling doesn't make people better at their jobs. Weeding people out because you didn't really bother trying to make them better, and just bellowed instead also means we're wasting a lot of opportunity.


The CAF as a whole needs to get better at mentorship, especially at the very beginning.

I supported the Officer Training School at CFB Chilliwack, there was minimal yelling in the field and on task, but there was a lot of pressure on them to perform. Tack on very full days for the candidates, that is what cracked many of them, time pressure and not yelling.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Huh, come again and what does this even mean? So, CAF should just continue to keep it all 'WHITE' then like they've always done, IOT appease white males? I guess this is while most police forces are full of white males. Got it

You really need to get out more and interact with police forces in Canada and not just watch movies about them. I think you find them a very diverse group.

 

[coolintheshade]

That is not an honest inference. The CAF and police forces are "full of white males" because of two general facts: demographics and occupations that interest males.

Not the fact that police forces is full of nepotism and they subtle discriminate during hiring???? OK, denial isn't just a river in Africa. Keep head buried in sand.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I supported the Officer Training School at CFB Chilliwack, there was minimal yelling in the field and on task, but there was a lot of pressure on them to perform. Tack on very full days for the candidates, that is what cracked many of them, time pressure and not yelling.

I don't know why people think yelling is the most effective way to put pressure on folks; usually you can do it a lot more effectively by being calm but having deadlines, concurrent requirements, large amounts of info being thrown at you etc. My days at basic are almost 18 years ago, and that's what they did then, so I think a lot of the BS comes from movies vice reality.

After a while, it loses it's effectiveness anyway. If you respect the person you work for/with, really no worse feeling than dropping the ball and disappointing them, and that's way more motivating than volume.

 

[coolintheshade]

I don't know why people think yelling is the most effective way to put pressure on folks; usually you can do it a lot more effectively by being calm but having deadlines, concurrent requirements, large amounts of info being thrown at you etc. My days at basic are almost 18 years ago, and that's what they did then, so I think a lot of the BS comes from movies vice reality.

After a while, it loses it's effectiveness anyway. If you respect the person you work for/with, really no worse feeling than dropping the ball and disappointing them, and that's way more motivating than volume.

There is a saying....empty barrels make the loudest noise.

 

[Remius]

Not the fact that police forces is full of nepotism and they subtle discriminate during hiring???? OK, denial isn't just a river in Africa. Keep head buried in sand.

Did you get turned down in a process?

 

[Jarnhamar]

When we start them out in an environment which defaults to yelling any time there is a "screw up" (and let's face it, quite a lot of the time said screw up is merely a failure to meet a purposefully set unattainable goal),

That's called stress inoculation. You're conditioning people to be able to think, respond, and act when they're scared, intimidated, and confused.

Giving people impossible tasks to complete teaches them the military won't always be fair, and how to fail without turning into a blubbering mess.

 

[Jarnhamar]

There is a saying....empty barrels make the loudest noise.

Ironically, the saying is empty barrels make the most noise.