New housing units at CFB Esquimalt expected to cost $86M: DND

[SeaKingTacco]

Yes it was a very common method - but isn’t used any more for several good reasons.

Concrete comes in many different grades - you will not get wood as durable as you can get with reinforced M55 concrete.

Warrior Block in Shearwater is built from concrete and is designed to be so durable as to survive a nuclear blast. As is Nelles Block in Esquimalt. Yet, those two buildings are widely considered to be the worst accommodations in the country. Their durability is part of the problem: they are crap to live in; expensive to fix and really, really expensive to demolish. Which is partly why they have persisted well past their life spans.

 

[Furniture]

There is going to be a Base Housing person in 40 years cursing you and all of us.

That's part or the problem, we expect a permanent solution. CAF housing shouldn't need to last 300 years. It should be built with a plan to replace it as it no longer suits our needs.

I'm guessing that in the 50s when the current PMQs were designed nobody considered that furniture would get so big that fitting it inside a Q would be a problem, or that people would neeed/want a workspace in the home.

 

[KevinB]

Warrior Block in Shearwater is built from concrete and is designed to be so durable as to survive a nuclear blast. As is Nelles Block in Esquimalt. Yet, those two buildings are widely considered to be the worst accommodations in the country.

IIRC That same common design barracks block was used across the CAF, 4 / room communal shower and laundry - radiator heat and no cooling.

CQ in Basements as well as Platoon offices and stores rooms. 2 Coy / Barracks for JR’s

Their durability is part of the problem: they are crap to live in; expensive to fix and really, really expensive to demolish.

They were never designed with any semblance of modern technology. Which understandable made any fixes very expensive.

Which is partly why they have persisted well past their life spans.

Feature not a bug.

Honestly concrete has a lot of thermal mass, so heating and cooling can be reduced.
Ideally a gray water system for recycling water, and other green building options. Solar panels as well.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

That's part or the problem, we expect a permanent solution. CAF housing shouldn't need to last 300 years. It should be built with a plan to replace it as it no longer suits our needs.

I'm guessing that in the 50s when the current PMQs were designed nobody considered that furniture would get so big that fitting it inside a Q would be a problem, or that people would neeed/want a workspace in the home.

My house is 60 years old and certainly not the oldest in the are, some which are well over 100. If the design is done well, upgrades and modifications can be done easily.

 

[YZT580]

Yes it was a very common method - but isn’t used any more for several good reasons.

Concrete comes in many different grades - you will not get wood as durable as you can get with reinforced M55 concrete.

assuming that the grades you mentioned are on the upper end of the price scale for concrete I can't imagine it being the mix of choice for the lowest bidder trying for a housing contract with the federal government; either yours or ours

 

[YZT580]

They were never designed with any semblance of modern technology. Which understandable made any fixes very expensive.

In 30 years you will be able to say the same thing about the ones we are building now

 

[McG]

IIRC That same common design barracks block was used across the CAF, 4 / room communal shower and laundry - radiator heat and no cooling.

CQ in Basements as well as Platoon offices and stores rooms. 2 Coy / Barracks for JR’s

That was a standard CA structure (part of several standard building designs that housed & supported a generic battalion of any arm), but I never saw one of those anywhere outside an Army facility.

Those old four person rooms are only suitable for formative training according to current living accommodation standards.

 

[daftandbarmy]

My house is 60 years old and certainly not the oldest in the are, some which are well over 100. If the design is done well, upgrades and modifications can be done easily.

Unlike some of the old DND concrete edifices with asbestos in them

 

[Maxman1]

Time for more bog standard temporary buildings. I suspect that some of those WW II structures may last to just shortly after the heat death of the sun.

P50 and D24 will still be transient shacks long after we're fighting in hover tanks and spaceships.

 

[KevinB]

That was a standard CA structure (part of several standard building designs that housed & supported a generic battalion of any arm), but I never saw one of those anywhere outside an Army facility.

Those old four person rooms are only suitable for formative training according to current living accommodation standards.

I had one of those rooms to myself as a PTE(3) in Calgary, and it was glorious for the price, generally 2/room in Petawawa was somewhat doable as Cpl/Pte’s.
But I totally agree the general setup isn’t suitable beyond training or short term accommodation as even in the 80-90’s sticking 4 troops into one of those on a longer than TDY type scenario wasn’t making anyone pleased.

The problem is I am not sure anyone knows what a practical accommodation block looks like for the CAF.

For those without a POMV the ability to work in/near ones residence is rather helpful - especially in the winter.
That said, security requirements for a Platoon Office and Stores cage have changed a lot since the 60’s, and a keyed wood door isn’t going to cut it.

 

[Furniture]

My house is 60 years old and certainly not the oldest in the are, some which are well over 100. If the design is done well, upgrades and modifications can be done easily.

And there is zero reason to believe that a wooden framed low-rise apartment block can't last as long. There is also the reality that modifying a wooden structure is easier than modifying a concrete one, so the ability to keep the building suitable may be higher by going with wooden construction.

 

[McG]

The problem is I am not sure anyone knows what a practical accommodation block looks like for the CAF.

CMP & ADM(IE) jointly resigned a standard just prior to Christmas. It specifies room standards for

• formative training courses,
• other courses & TD up to 6 months,
• other courses & attach-postings over 6 months, and
• restricted moves, IR, or otherwise permanent living-in.

So we do have standards to design to.

 

[RangerRay]

I saw them in Moscow and East Berlin built by the lowest bidder. Really nice.

Lots in Winnipeg too!

You are confusing the choice of material with the communist regime's flair for avant-garde architecture.

I didn’t know square concrete blocks were considered avant-garde…

Fun aside, since I moved to Winnipeg, two of the fugliest examples of Marxist brutalist concrete architecture in public buildings, the airport terminal and the police HQ, were demolished. I couldn’t believe how many people were up in arms about these “heritage buildings” being bulldozed.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

A lot of the buildings here have concrete floors/ceilings and concrete stairwells. But the interior is all metal stud with gyprock. That reduces sound and gives a lot of flexibility as to layout. You get sturdiness, sound proofing and fire resistant's of concrete, but without the internal walls being concrete.