No Charges in AFG Checkpoint-Shooting Death

[The Bread Guy]

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1979

News Release
CFNIS/SNEFC (Int’l) 2006-05 - July 7, 2006

OTTAWA - The military police investigation into the March 14 checkpoint-shooting death of a local Afghan man in Kandahar has determined that the Canadian Forces (CF) soldier involved acted lawfully and that no criminal or services charges will be laid.

The CF National Investigation Service (NIS), the military’s independent military police unit responsible for serious and sensitive matters, has completed a thorough investigation of the incident and found the use of force employed to be appropriate considering the circumstances, rules of engagement, and risks faced by Canadian soldiers at the time.

The investigation was completed by the NIS detachment in Kandahar, in cooperation with the Afghan National Police and with assistance from Ottawa-based investigators. The results of the investigation will be shared with the chain of command to assist in its operational review of the incident. 

The NIS is an independent military police unit with a mandate to investigate serious and sensitive matters in relation to National Defence property, DND employees and CF personnel serving in Canada and around the world.

 

[ArmyRick]

Good to hear. It sounds as though the soldier was doing his job...

 

[geo]

of course he was doing his job.....
but he's had this thing hanging over his head since then.... 4 months!!!

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

What a fucking joke!  A waste of time and resources.

 

[3rd Horseman]

Nice to hear the lads are doing a fine job.
The NIS, if they were in place to investigate serious and sensitive issues, you would think that this was serious and sensitive enough to complete in a timely manor ....lets say 7 to 10 days.

 

[GO!!!]

How would you like to have something like this hanging over your head for four months!

I love it when the NIS guys say things like "we're just as good or better than our civilian counterparts"  :

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Do we know for sure that the soldier wasn't "unofficially" informed of that decision weeks ago? Is it possible the official announcement wasn't made for so long for political or other reasons, and that the soldier has not been made to have this hang over his head?

Just curious.

 

[2 Cdo]

Do we know for sure that the soldier wasn't "unofficially" informed of that decision weeks ago? Is it possible the official announcement wasn't made for so long for political or other reasons, and that the soldier has not been made to have this hang over his head?

Just curious.

While that is possible, in all honesty I think the reality is that said troop had to wait this long for an answer! Our military judicial system is, at the best of times, an extremely slow and ponderous beast. I've personally had people charged for an ND, proper paperwork submitted, weapon is certified functional, guilty party has admitted to his mistake, and still waited almost 12 months for a simple orders parade. I understand making sure everything is conducted properly and professionally but this is ridiculous!

After all that all I have to say is good for the troop. I am so pleased that a soldier is not being fed to the "PC police" for following the ROE's and actually defending his fellow troops!

 

[MikeM]

Good on the troop, indeed sounds as though he was doing his job, damn shame to put someone through that kind of stress though and have that hang over his head for 4 months if that is the case.

 

[FastEddy]

I love it when the NIS guys say things like "we're just as good or better than our civilian counterparts"  :

Sorry, I must have missed that part. Where and when was that mentioned ??.

Cheers.

 

[GO!!!]

Sorry, I must have missed that part. Where and when was that mentioned ??.

Ohhhh, just about every time we ask them (AJAG,MPs,NIS) why investigations take so long to come to seemingly obvious conclusions.

 

[FastEddy]

Ohhhh, just about every time we ask them (AJAG,MPs,NIS) why investigations take so long to come to seemingly obvious conclusions.

Then actually it wasn't part of a quote or statement.

I wonder who the real culprits are for the beautiful mess of S.O.P.s, Rules & Regs, Bureaucracy and Ad minisration in the last 46 years. (hint: DNDHQ) I do not think you'll find too many MP's or NIS involved in it or happy with them.

You've obviously forgot that the MP & NIS have to work with in those boundaries and procedures. And God forbid that they step one inch out of them, because its probally people like you that would start screaming blue murder.

Maybe you haven't noticed, the Civilian Justice System, painfully moves even slower.

 

[2 Cdo]

Then actually it wasn't part of a quote or statement.

I wonder who the real culprits are for the beautiful mess of S.O.P.s, Rules & Regs, Bureaucracy and Ad minisration in the last 46 years. (hint: DNDHQ) I do not think you'll find too many MP's or NIS involved in it or happy with them.

You've obviously forgot that the MP & NIS have to work with in those boundaries and procedures. And God forbid that they step one inch out of them, because its probally people like you that would start screaming blue murder.

Maybe you haven't noticed, the Civilian Justice System, painfully moves even slower.

Wow, an MP who manages to point blame away from MP's. : Sorry to disagree, but MP's foot dragging IS ALSO part of the problem. Blaming NDHQ for all the problems in your field is like Gen Boyle blaming his subordinates for tricking him into signing something he hadn't read.

I do agree that NDHQ is PART of the problem, but it isn't ALL of the problem. To try and say otherwise is deluding yourself.

 

[garb811]

Nice to hear the lads are doing a fine job.
The NIS, if they were in place to investigate serious and sensitive issues, you would think that this was serious and sensitive enough to complete in a timely manor ....lets say 7 to 10 days.

You're absolutely right; they should have immediately rolled CSI: Kandahar and this whole thing would have been closed in 60 min.  All they had to do was ramp up the 3D computer modeling system to reconstruct the scene from the location of the empty casings in relation to the point of impact of the rounds on the vehicle and then overlay it on a surveillance satellite image to conclusively and miraculously prove that…oh, wait a second, the vehicle can’t be found?  Nor can the driver?  Oh…uh…well, I guess they’ll need to go to a two episode plot line for this one. (Globe and Mail story discussing the driver and vehicle.)

While I agree that four months may seem excessive for what seems to be a pretty straightforward case, it is absolutely imperative to talk to the taxi driver as he is the only one who can say what he saw and/or heard prior to the shots being fired.  Ironically this individual could have strengthened the case for the shooter making the right call but at this point, baring him coming out of the woodwork to "shed new light on a flawed investigation", we're never going to know what it is he saw and heard prior to doing what he did.  Not being on the ground I have no idea if four months is a reasonable amount of time to try to find the guy to talk to but I do believe that every reasonable and logical step to locate the guy needed to be taken to preserve the integrity of the investigative process and minimize the risk that the investigation and report would be discredited as being too hasty to draw a conclusion which favoured our guy.  My guess is IF the driver had been available to interview this would have been wrapped up much faster, since he wasn't, it wasn't.

Having said that, keep in mind that I'm just an MP apologist so don't let a few facts get in the way of your regularly scheduled MP bashing...game back on.  : 

 

[Big Red]

Here's an idea, take statements from all the soldiers involved, if the stories jive give them the benefit of the doubt, tell em "Good Job" and close the investigation. 

Only in Canada does shit like warning shots and dead suspect VBIED's make the news.

 

[GO!!!]

+1 to Red.

How many witnesses were there who speak english, wear our country's uniform and saw the whole darn thing?

MP: "I need a written statement from every man in the Platoon, Warrant"

WO: "You heard the man, write!"

If you are saying that the testimony of the driver (who was the target) is pivotal to an investigation like this, why? You don't think he might bear some sort of malice towards the coalition for trying to kill him?

Why is the word of soldiers untrustworthy without the word of Afghan cabbies to back it up?

 

[garb811]

Red:  I agree and with any luck we are now at a point where these issues are being dealt with in an appropriate manner with regard to requirements and triggers for an investigation.  Unfortunately with this one someone deemed an investigation was required (Because of the differing opinion of the family as to what occurred and a looming claim against the crown?) and one was initiated.

GO:  Nobody is saying anything about the word of soldiers being untrustworthy.  But as you pointed out whereas the cabbie might bear some malice towards the coalition, it can equally be said that soldier's statements may be biased towards supporting the shooter and his split second decision which quite possibly (probably?) saved their lives.  Without interviewing the cabbie the "why" of the investigation is never going to be fully known as it was his actions which directly led to the shots being fired so the investigation is, by definition, incomplete.  I know it may seem irrelevant in a situation like this but from the investigative perspective you want to talk to the key people involved to fully develop the scenario, understand why things occurred in the manner they did and present a report which details all of the relevant facts which support the conclusions the investigator has reached, not just the ones which reinforce “our” side of the story.  This also makes it difficult for the press to scream “cover-up!” if they don’t like the outcome. 

At the end of the day the system worked, albeit slower than most would have liked, and the soldier's interpretation of the situation and subsequent reaction have been vindicated.  Hopefully giving added confidence to the guys on the ground as they go about their duties.

Edit:  Spelling

 

[GAP]

Would there not be a factor of including the Afghans in the investigations to lay to rest any future claims of cover up???

 

[Dissident]

The perspective from an non badged reservist:

Whenever I had to do something to antagonize troops, it was never from personal initiative. Directives and orders usually came from a much higher level, be it RSM or unit commander, wanting something done. It is often an unsatisfying duty that we have to carry professionally, but rarely with enthusiasm.

Four months seems like a long time, especially since we are not privy to all the details. However, what about a 2 year legal nightmare, including court martial, inquiries and negative media attention? How long would that have felt? That could very well be the result, if an investigation was rushed or botched.

The shadow of the Somalia investigation still hangs over the MP branch. It's legacy is still alive.

 

[FastEddy]

Wow, an MP who manages to point blame away from MP's. : Sorry to disagree, but MP's foot dragging IS ALSO part of the problem. Blaming NDHQ for all the problems in your field is like Gen Boyle blaming his subordinates for tricking him into signing something he hadn't read.

I do agree that NDHQ is PART of the problem, but it isn't ALL of the problem. To try and say otherwise is deluding yourself.

There is no blame in this case, regarding the time duration of it.

As far as foot dragging, its probally the last thing any LEO wants to see or happen. However we are hamstrung with the Justice System and the previously mentioned factors. How you can say that the ordinary Military Policemen/Women or Investigators have contributed to them,  only illustrates your lack of knowledge and understanding in the matter.

But in a case of Apples vs Oranges, Recruitment & Enlistment can take up to a year or more, And a year  teaching you your left foot from your right, then God knows how long in PAT.
                                         
Four months on a Investigation resulting in the Death of Friendlies or Foreign Nationals seems like  a wiz bang fast forward.