No longer an OT Trade

[Im Not Telling]

I'm wondering how others are feeling about trades like INT becoming a direct entry trade.  No longer will you need to put in the time and hope you pass all the testing to get into one of the smallest trade in the CF, you can now enter right off the street.  I know I'm not impressed with the idea.  I want someone with some kind of a military background to be watching out for my intrests.

 

[Trinity]

Doesn't every trade look after each other interests?  We rely on each other.

So what is your beef with INT vs. any other trade? 
Just curious but this sounds personal on your end, especially with this being your second post.

 

[medaid]

I wil elaborate my answer later but, I for one, do not believe Int should be a direct entry trade. Now that being said there are those who are prett good at it being direct entries. Not many but a few. More clarification later.

 

[The_Falcon]

And where are you hearing the Int Op will become open to direct entries?  Going right to the recruiting site http://www.forces.ca/v3/engraph/jobs/jobs.aspx?id=111&bhcp=1 show that it is still OT, direct entries are limited to those who are getting back in the CF or reservists doing a combined CT/OT.

 

[Im Not Telling]

I'm not picking on INT, and I'm not saying it's Direct entry right now.  what I asked was how do others feel about the idea of trades like INT which is an OT only becoming direct entry.

secound...never trust a recruiting site the information becomes out dated faster then you can read it and they made the changes to the TP and are all ready looking at direct entry for INT.

 

[aesop081]

I want someone with some kind of a military background to be watching out for my intrests.

I dont understand your point.

At any rate, get used to it. We dont have 100 000 people to draw on to fill the ranks of the "remuster-only" trades. Pure demographics tell you that we have to get people from somewhere and that "somewhere" is civvy street like all the other trades.

and they made the changes to the TP and are all ready looking at direct entry for INT.

And they are trying it now for SAR TECH and its comming for AES Op too. As i said above and for the reasons stated, get used to it.

 

[Im Not Telling]

again the point was missed, it dosn't matter what I think, I know how I feel about it.  If your focussing on me your missing the question.  I'll ask the question in more simple terms.

"what do you think of making once OT only trades into direct entry trades?"


the last person said it's a matter of numbers get used to it.  one person said some people may be good at it but still thinks restaint needs to be made in reguards to some trades

 

[aesop081]

If your focussing on me your missing the question. 

I did not miss your question. I dont understand your point about someone "watching out for you interests".

 

[X-mo-1979]

again the point was missed, it dosn't matter what I think, I know how I feel about it.  If your focussing on me your missing the question.  I'll ask the question in more simple terms.

"what do you think of making once OT only trades into direct entry trades?"


the last person said it's a matter of numbers get used to it.  one person said some people may be good at it but still thinks restaint needs to be made in reguards to some trades

What does 4 years in the reserve or regular force really offer anyway?Sure certain trades like recce, or infantry recce platoon,comm rsh,may have limited application.But I have seen pretty green reservist go into it and do really well.Infact one got promoted to SGT pretty quick.
He had never deployed...or left Ontario with the military.So really what is the difference?He had a total of maybe 180 days in uniform as res infantry.

4 years in another trade doesn't make you smarter. ;D

As for it being more "elite" or harder to get into. I think everything should be.However with manning issues and the slump humanity had put itself into .....well...how do I put it....You cant make a diamond ring out of wood...but you can make a ring.

 

[zorro]

INT is open to direct entry, at least under the ROTP entry plan.

I know two guys that were on IAP with me last summer that went INT.

 

[aesop081]

INT is open to direct entry, at least under the ROTP entry plan.

In this instance, the original poster was focusing on RegF INT Op.........

 

[RTaylor]

I think that Int should be Direct Entry with the proper qualifications, such as prior service or similar experience, other than that leave it as a remuster trade.

Last time I checked, which was like 2 weeks ago with the recruiter, it was still OT only.

 

[aesop081]

I think that Int should be Direct Entry with the proper qualifications, such as prior service or similar experience, other than that leave it as a remuster trade.

An Infantryman who remusters to INT Op and winds up at an AF Wing has just as little understanding of the environment he/she serves in than a civillian fresh off the street. Its a question of proper training. I am certain that the INT school is up to the task if it should ever come where we are training "direct entry" members.

As it stands, most, if not all, of the remuster-only trades can ill-afford to carry on as before. We no longer have a 100 000-man military force to source recruits from. If we cannot recruit , in adequate numbers, from within, guess where that leaves us ?

As a guy who is in a remuster-only trade, a trade 25% in the red, its well past the time to stop saying "it wont work" and time to say "how do we make it work".

 

[zorro]

An Infantryman who remusters to INT Op and winds up at an AF Wing has just as little understanding of the environment he/she serves in than a civillian fresh off the street. Its a question of proper training. I am certain that the INT school is up to the task if it should ever come where we are training "direct entry" members.

My bad in the above post, I thought we were discussing INT more generally...

But CDN +1 to  your post. I don't see why there would be a problem recruiting straight from civy side. INT Op will be trained like any other MOC in the CF, and I agree that we are more than capable of preparing our soldiers for whatever their occupation may be.

You raise an interesting point however with reference to the undermanning issue in "remuster only trades". If we are so short in such trades, why does the process seem so prolonged? I myself don't have first hand experience, but I believe at some point I read that your OT took upwards of a year? You would think the powers that be would work on refining the entire process to address this. Then again, maybe just the bureaucratic nature of the beast eh?

 

[RTaylor]

They told me at my first interview that IntOp was remuster only because someone off of civvie street wouldn't have the knowledge or background to really understand what the CF does.

Although I do agree CDN, the remuster only trades in the red do have to be looked at. I can understand recruiting off the streets as opposed to OT though, for some reasons it makes sense.

 

[aesop081]

They told me at my first interview that IntOp was remuster only because someone off of civvie street wouldn't have the knowledge or background to really understand what the CF does.

You are going AVN right ? Do you come into the CF knowing anything about aircraft maintenance ?

The CF takes civillians from all walks of life and trains them to do the job that is expected of them. Thats why we have aprentice level and journeyman level training. A new INT Op works under the supervision of someone that has the knowledge and experience, just like in any other trade.

You raise an interesting point however with reference to the undermanning issue in "remuster only trades". If we are so short in such trades, why does the process seem so prolonged? I myself don't have first hand experience, but I believe at some point I read that your OT took upwards of a year? You would think the powers that be would work on refining the entire process to address this. Then again, maybe just the bureaucratic nature of the beast eh?

Making selection faster would certainly not help trades like FE, AES Op or SAR TECH. Those trades only have the capacity to train a small number of new members per year. There are only so many instructors and so many aircrafts available.

 

[blacktriangle]

Ok.

So I'm an 18 year old with a high school education. I have 1.5 years of previous res cbt arms training. I show great interest in the INT trade, and am taking related post secondary part time. Can I be trained by the INT branch to be as effective as those who OT after 6+ years in the reg force?

I think this is the kind of question we need to be asking ourselves, and if the answer is no, then perhaps direct entry for the average joe might not work for these trades. If it would work for the most part, we should be looking at it.

As long as the training is not watered down, and people are failed when they should be, can we not keep our standards high?

 

[aesop081]

As long as the training is not watered down, and people are failed when they should be, can we not keep our standards high?

The training need not be watered down. It certainly will need adjusting so that a new "direct entry" INT Op is just as effective as a "OT" INT OP. Theres is no reason, IMHO that we cannot accomplish this.

 

[RTaylor]

Actually CDN, Im going AVS (got em mixed up for a while) and LCIS as 2nd pick.

Some trades should have a pre-req before being able to apply, be it prior service or just a type of test. In reality I don't think any of us really know exactly what the IntOp fellows are really doing besides them, and they dont post here about it.

And Popn, I have 2yrs Reserve experience from a few years ago and they wouldnt let me go right into IntOp. It was my original trade choice.

 

[aesop081]

In reality I don't think any of us really know exactly what the IntOp fellows are really doing besides them.

Considering that i have to deal with INT Ops in order to do my job on every operational flight, i'm certain i understand and know quite well what they do.


And sorry for the AVN/AVS mixup. My point remains the same though.