• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

October 2019: Turkey into Syria to Deal With Kurds

Blackadder1916

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,011
Points
1,060
tomahawk6 said:
  . . .  You can trust the Israelis . . .

There are probably a couple hundred former US sailors who may disagree with you.

http://www.gtr5.com/
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
953
Points
1,090
Not hate.  But not unconditional support either.

It was Israel who sank a US warship, deliberately.  And much more recently, it was Israel who shelled UN observation posts, killing a Canadian among others.




But between Israel and Turkey, Israel absolutely is the better choice between the two - I think most people would agree with you on that.
 

Cloud Cover

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
30
Points
530
Turkey Bombs US Special Forces: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/report-turkey-has-just-bombed-u-s-special-forces-in-syria
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,243
Points
1,090
Cloud Cover said:
Turkey Bombs US Special Forces: https://nationalpost.com/news/world/report-turkey-has-just-bombed-u-s-special-forces-in-syria


If they were SEALS or Green Berets then it’s ok.  Neither unit were at the Normandy invasion to help out.
 

Retired AF Guy

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
151
Points
710
CBH99 said:
Not hate.  But not unconditional support either.

It was Israel who sank a US warship, deliberately. 

If you are talking about the USS Liberty she wasn't sunk, but shot to pieces and 34 people killed. And you are right, it was deliberate.
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
3,047
Points
1,060
Retired AF Guy said:
If you are talking about the USS Liberty she wasn't sunk, but shot to pieces and 34 people killed. And you are right, it was deliberate.

Thats messed up. Seems Israel does whatever it wants.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,243
Points
1,090
Not sure how I feel about this.  On one hand that guy might be dead.  On the other he may have escaped.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jack-letts-syria-turkey-artillery-1.5319047
 

The Bread Guy

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
1,902
Points
1,260
A few of the latest tidbits - highlights mine ...
 

CBH99

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
953
Points
1,090
Turkey...

While the situation in Syria is no doubt complicated in that various players & their proxies are all vying for influence, and the general security situation sucks...

You are deploying state-commanded armed forces into the sovereign territory of another legally recognized state without their consent.  That is literally a textbook definition of invasion. 



The invasion may be limited in scope. 

It may have the intention of simply creating a buffer zone close to your own border to better protect your border from what you perceive to be a threat.

It may not be that your intention is the conquest and pillaging of the country your invading.

It may be that the deployment is intended to be short lived, with certain objectives to be accomplished.



BUT...you are deploying military forces across the border into another legally recognized country without their permission.  It's an invasion.  (Whether you like the term or not.)


noun
noun: invasion; plural noun: invasions

    an instancen of invading a country or region with an armed force.
    "in 1546 England had to be defended from invasion"




BTW... did Turkey seriously just threaten the EU indirectly with terrorism?  If the EU calls it an invasion, then Turkey will start allowing thousands of unchecked refugees into Europe, including possible ISIS fighters currently being held in camps?  The same camps the Kurds can't control anymore, because they are busy defending themselves against this "non-invasion" of theirs? 

The same Turkey that purchased oil from ISIS, supplied them with weapons, and didn't bother to engage them militarily despite the fact that ISIS was quickly approaching their borders?  They decided, instead, to engage the Kurds - who WERE defending that territory against ISIS.


Sorry for the rant.  Just wow...

 

The Bread Guy

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
1,902
Points
1,260
Another reference map attached (from the Congressional Research Service's "Turkish Incursion into Syria: U.S. Policy Implications" dated 11 Oct 2019 - more here).

This opinion piece from the Institute for the Study of War, shared under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act ...
The United States made a deliberate choice to depart from Syria.  America will pay a heavy price for this unforced error.

The United States has lost its defeat mechanism against the Islamic State. The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) were not the original counter-terrorism partner of choice. It took years for the U.S. to realize that the SDF were the only capable partners. They will not partner with us again. This betrayal has burned that bridge to ashes. It also serves as a warning for any future counterterrorism partner to contemplate – the U.S. will not have your back in the end.

The United States will face a pan-Kurdish uprising that will further fragment an already unstable region. The Kurdish component of the SDF is part of a regional network that stretches from Syria into Turkey, Iraq, and Iran. We must expect this network to mobilize. Kurds across the region have started to protest against the atrocities taking place. Few Kurdish groups will stand by and watch genocide occur. Once the Kurds mobilize as a people, the region will never be the same. The Kurds may not have a nation, but they can stand up an armed force to be reckoned with.

The United States’ decision to withdraw from Syria has emboldened jihadists worldwide. The return of the Islamic State is now a given. The sole remaining superpower has demonstrated its lack of will to ensure their continued defeat. There is no obstacle remaining in the jihadists’ path. There will be a spike in jihadist activity, from lone wolf attacks to previously unknown groups emerging from the darkness. The global war of terror has just begun.

The United States has ceded the moral high ground. Turkish planes are bombing hospitals, refugee camps, and villages using airspace the U.S. controlled just days ago. Turkish-backed forces are executing politicians and civil activists that the U.S. encouraged. Civilians are not just caught up in the Turkish offensive, they are the targets. The U.S. is not confronting the challenges posed by those who seek to destabilize the world; the U.S. has chosen to sit on the sidelines.

The U.S. decision to leave Syria has allowed a neo-Ottoman armed force to march on the Arab world. Turkish President Erdogan is cleansing Kurdish areas to resettle millions of Syrian Arab refugees. They will oppose him for bringing neo-Ottoman invaders into Arab-ruled lands. Many Arabs blame Ottoman rule for the backwardness of their countries. Few will welcome its return.

The United States has decided not to be an indispensable world leader. The U.S. had maintained a security buffer between our NATO ally and our counterterrorism partner, and we walked away from it. These actions facilitate the re-emergence of ISIS, as we claim to lead the counter-ISIS coalition. The U.S. has pursued a maximum pressure campaign against Iran, but this decision just opened the door for them in Eastern Syria. Despite what our National Security Strategy claims, with this decision, America is no longer leading on the world stage.
 

Attachments

  • SyriaRefMapCRS.JPG
    SyriaRefMapCRS.JPG
    75.1 KB · Views: 113

tomahawk6

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
62
Points
530
The President is taking alot of political heat from the Senate that he doesnt need. This decision IMO is a disaster and there may not be the means to put the genie back into the bottle. The Rurks have the S400 in place and we might have ro face Turkish patrot batteries. I am not sure about sanctions how quickly they could be in place. Maybe Trump may change policy. The Kurds now have sided with Assads government. What a mess.
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
4,006
Points
1,110
tomahawk6 said:
The President is taking alot of political heat from the Senate that he doesnt need. This decision IMO is a disaster and there may not be the means to put the genie back into the bottle. The Rurks have the S400 in place and we might have ro face Turkish patrot batteries. I am not sure about sanctions how quickly they could be in place. Maybe Trump may change policy. The Kurds now have sided with Assads government. What a mess.

Right. Sanctions against a NATO member. One which holds the Bosphorous strait and the key to the Black Sea. One which is a pretty key piece of real estate for supporting NATO operations in southeastern Europe and the Middle East.

Can this be cleaned up? Maybe. It would have been far less messy to simply not stomp on the bag of dog crap in the first place.
 
Top