Ontario Election: New riding and choices.

[Cloud Cover]

Which one.........
Cheers
Larry

The Mississauga one.

 

[Infanteer]

It strikes me that most of the problems associated with various Canadian elections in recent years have been caused by the manner in which most parties now select leaders. It used to be that either caucus voted, or there was a delegated vote. This direct election of a  leader by anyone with a party membership seems to be the source of a lot of abuse, corruption and outright fraud.

Yes, isn't it.  I always thought caucus voting was the better option, as the party could avoid the hucksters.  You do run the risk of coup/counter-coup as the Aussies have, but that isn't as bad as the crap that seems to tarnish every party election.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yes, isn't it.  I always thought caucus voting was the better option, as the party could avoid the hucksters.  You do run the risk of coup/counter-coup as the Aussies have, but that isn't as bad as the crap that seems to tarnish every party election.

I would rather risk that than the clown show we have going in every party at every level of government in Canada now.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Yes, isn't it.  I always thought caucus voting was the better option, as the party could avoid the hucksters.  You do run the risk of coup/counter-coup as the Aussies have, but that isn't as bad as the crap that seems to tarnish every party election.

So did I and I still do ... the rise of Bush 43, Obama, Saunders, Clinton and Trump have persuaded me that caucus selection is vastly superior to 'grass roots' elections.

The caucus is well attuned to what the people are thinking ... more so if recently defeated candidates are included in the mix. Party activists (you're right, they're mostly hucksters) are, mainly, the well funded stalking horses of (sometimes extremist) special interests.

The occasional coup (like the Aussies have had and as the brits did with PM Thatcher) are probably healthy.

I think that the party, writ large, should be responsible for the policies and platform while the caucus should elect ~ and, now and again, fire ~ its own leader. Candidates should have to 'sign up' to the platform, the leader should have to stand by (or disallow) each candidate.

 

[Remius]

I would tend to agree but:

With the limitations now on corporate donations and individual donations, it seems that membership purchases are now a significant revenue source.  People want something for their money.  A say and a vote on choosing a leader and policy is that "something". 

I could be wrong but getting the grass roots directly involved is a result of limiting large donations.  Parties need revenue and the need for that revenue has put the power in the hands of the party activists. 

 

[Altair]

http://poll.forumresearch.com/post/2847/ontario-mid-campaign/

Toronto, May 24th -  In a random sampling of public opinion taken by The Forum Poll™ among 906 Ontario voters, amongst those decided and leaning almost half of Ontarians (47%) say that they would support the NDP. A third (33%) say they would support the PCs, and one-sixth (14%) say they would support the Liberals. Few (4%) say they would support either the Green Party, or another party (2%).

There is no way this can be true...right?

 

[Remius]

I would say so if it weren't showing the NDP on an upward trend in virtually every poll.  it may just be an outlier poll but it supports what is happening in other polls.

Likely this poll was done before the more recent Ford revelation so this won't be the best news for the PCs.

Also it seems the PCs are going to get dirty in the mud as well:  https://globalnews.ca/news/4230225/ontario-pc-party-ndp-announcement/


Andrew Coyne last night on CBC made a good suggestion.  Ford and the PCs need to stay on message about the economy.  The problem being is that they have yet to release a costed platform (or platform for that matter).  They need to stop acting like front runners and go on a smart offensive. 

I've mentioned this before but I think that Doug Ford is weak on the complexities of government policy, so I'm not sure he can switch gears.  It's one thing to coast on the unpopularity of your opponents but he is allowing the NDP to flank him as an alternative.

Something has to happen and quick to turn this around for the PCs.   

 

[ModlrMike]

Yes, because the best thing for Ontario is to drift even further left.  :facepalm:

 

[Remius]

Yes, because the best thing for Ontario is to drift even further left.  :facepalm:

Yeah, and if they only manage a minority they will be propped up by what's left of the LPO and wil essentially just be a continuation of liberal policies...

The ideal scenario for me is a minority PC government.  But that may not happen if trends keep up.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Yeah, and if they only manage a minority they will be propped up by what's left of the LPO and wil essentially just be a continuation of liberal policies...

The ideal scenario for me is a minority PC government.  But that may not happen if trends keep up.

If not, it won't be the end of the world. ^This country is bigger than the fuck ups of any particular party than might be in power or loses a good chance at gaining power at any particular point in time.  ^
   

 

[Altair]

Yes, because the best thing for Ontario is to drift even further left.  :facepalm:

Maybe not, but I don't think Ontario was ready for a lurch to the right.

Maybe a slow inching over to the right. A moderate leader in that case would have been for the best.

Instead, faced with Ford, people would rather the NDP, the same bad ideas as the liberals, less baggage.

 

[Good2Golf]

Instead, faced with Ford, people would rather the NDP, the same bad ideas as the liberals, less baggage.

...other than 1990-1995... 

 

[Remius]

Most millenials and younger gen x cohorts (who may be behind the NDP surge) don't really remember that.  25 years ago plus, last century, before social media etc etc.

But a lot of people have seen what a mess the PC party is right now.  They remember the Ford scandals in Toronto and they see what populist leaders can result in.

The PC party and Ford have to ensure they don't give anyone any reason not to vote for them.  So far it does not seem to be working.

Horvath when compared to the other two looks better and has little to no ethical baggage.   

 

[Good2Golf]

Most millenials and younger gen x cohorts (who may be behind the NDP surge) don't really remember that.  25 years ago plus, last century, before social media etc etc.

They'll get a refresher with "Social Contract #2"...  :nod:

 

[Altair]

...other than 1990-1995...

The memories of the 1990 election — and the subsequent five years of Rae's NDP government — are beginning to fade. Millennials will be the biggest cohort of eligible voters in this election, and even the oldest among them would have been roughly 15 years old when Rae's government was defeated in 1995.

About a sixth of the Ontario electorate today wasn't even been born yet in 1990, nearly a quarter were barely out of diapers and over 2 million Ontarians came to Canada as immigrants after 1990.

So for a significant portion of voters, Ontario's only NDP government is a history lesson rather than a lived experience. Those voters who might be negatively influenced by memories of the early 1990s would be predisposed already to shun the New Democrats. The party traditionally has struggled to win support among older voters, so it's difficult to separate the tendency of those voters to eschew the NDP from any lingering memories of 'Rae Days'.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-ontario-1990-election-1.4675425

Yeah, I don't think that matters much for a great deal of people.

 

[Good2Golf]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-ontario-1990-election-1.4675425

Yeah, I don't think that matters much for a great deal of people.

You are likely right...at their own peril, of course.  Anyone I knew who voted NDP in '90 got 'the Hand' from me when they stated having to take 'Rae Days.'  :'(

'On verra'

G2G

 

[Remius]

They'll get a refresher with "Social Contract #2"...  :nod:

No doubt.  One can hope they won't repeat the errors in their past. But hope is the first step towards disappointment.

I'll just be glad to see Wynne go.

If the NDP win, then the other parties will have to reinvent themselves for the next round.  Except the PC.  They seem to keep screwing themselves over and over.

 

[mariomike]

They'll get a refresher with "Social Contract #2"...  :nod:

I remember the first one.

We lost twelve 12-hours regular shifts. But, gained twelve 12-hour shifts of OT. 

 

[Remius]

The problem with these polls though is that I think that vote distribution isn't accounted for.

So while the NDP may have the lead, the PCs may have the more effective vote distribution.

 

[ModlrMike]

Looks like the NDP have their own warts to cure:

NDP under fire for GTA candidate's Hitler-themed social media post

Leader Andrea Horwath offered words of support for candidate in Scarborough-Agincourt

Ontario's Progressive Conservatives are calling on NDP Leader Andrea Horwath to part ways with a candidate in the Toronto area who shared an Adolf Hitler meme on social media several years ago.

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I have to observe that if this were a Conservative candidate the response from the NDP would be much different.