Path to become a Para Infantry Officer in around 10 years.

[sam.shepherd2379]

Greetings all.

My name is Samuel Shepherd, and I'm looking to become a para infantry officer as my career.

A little bit of my background which will probably effect your much appreciated advice is my cadet career. I've been in for 5 years, retiring as a MWO. Most significantly though would be my completion of the Basic Parachutist course at CFLAWC in the summer of 2011. (If you feel that the course offered to cadets does not count as the actual military qualification then you are mistaken). I was captain of the highschool rugby team, as well as head coach for the grade 7 & 8 team, so I have some leadership experience already from cadets and rugby.

Now, the real issue is that I have two options which have been offered to me, and I need to choose fast which one I wish to take.
First option: Join the QOR in Scarborough as an NCM while attending Trent University in Oshawa.
Second option: Join the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada as an Officer (a position is open and I have been offered it) while attending McMaster Univesity.

Now the way I see it both options have benefits.
Option 1 Benifits:
- Joining as an NCM gives me experience as a troop, such as the ones I will one day lead in the future. This means I can look at the system from a different view, watch officers as my leaders and see what is good and what is bad. This, in my opinion, is a huge factor in learning how to be a good leader.
- Another factor of this would be respect. I am very much aware of the dislike many NCM/NCO's have for Officers and I was wondering if being an NCM for 5-10 years would help my future troops to understand I'm not some officer who bought his way through University and/or doesn't know what he's doing or what it's like for them.
- Another factor for joining the QOR is that they are a parachute reserve unit, and this means I'm already affiliated with a jump unit, will already get more parachute training with connections to get on more parachute courses, as well as on day transfer to a regular forces jump company (havn't decided who yet, should I have).

Option 2 Benefits:
- It is hard, especially now, to receive a position as an officer when hiring is at a minimum. I have been offered a spot with them as an Officer Cadet starting in January 2013, with (so I'm told) the ability to already be on course by the end of the month (so long as the paperwork is not messed up).
- I will already be an officer, and will be getting officer training right away. The Argylls as I've been told have good funding, which means they easily get their members on courses easily. Is this true?
- I will have more experience as a leader because I will have been an Officer longer, and as a young officer I will be very humble, learning from anyone and everyone I can as to what is the best way to lead.


I understand that being a young officer is often frowned upon as many of them can be cocky young kids with very little experience, and I can assure you I would never wish to be like that. Anyone who knows me knows I learn well from everyone, and am quick to learn.

If anybody knows any information I have overlooked regarding these two units, or would simply like to offer their opinion on the matter, please respond soon, as do not have long and this window of oppertunity regarding the officer position is closing fast.

Also, all individuals have a bias, either conscious or subconscious, so please give your rank and unit history if you wish to help me out with your personal imput, this way I will be able to tell what kind of bias you have. (In talking about biases I don't mean to be insulting it's just a factor of humanity).

Thank you all!
Sam Shepherd

 

[dangerboy]

This is just my 2 cents.  If you wish to be an officer and a position is open take it.  If you decied to go NCM with the wish to go officer in the future, your unit might not offer you the chance.  As for being in the reserves and going over to a reg force jump company, remember with the 27 rifle companies in the regular force only 3 of them are jump Coys and there are usually only 5 officer positions (3 Pl Comd, Coy Comd and Coy 2IC) so you have a lot of competition to get in and you have no say in what BN and what Coy you go to.  Whatever Regiment you join will deceide based on manning levels which BN you go to then your CO will dictate which Coy you are assigned to.  You have very little say in the matter, you can tell them your preferance but the needs of the Army come first.

 

[brihard]

Greetings all.

My name is Samuel Shepherd, and I'm looking to become a para infantry officer as my career.

A little bit of my background which will probably effect your much appreciated advice is my cadet career. I've been in for 5 years, retiring as a MWO. Most significantly though would be my completion of the Basic Parachutist course at CFLAWC in the summer of 2011. (If you feel that the course offered to cadets does not count as the actual military qualification then you are mistaken). I was captain of the highschool rugby team, as well as head coach for the grade 7 & 8 team, so I have some leadership experience already from cadets and rugby.

Now, the real issue is that I have two options which have been offered to me, and I need to choose fast which one I wish to take.
First option: Join the QOR in Scarborough as an NCM while attending Trent University in Oshawa.
Second option: Join the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada as an Officer (a position is open and I have been offered it) while attending McMaster Univesity.

Now the way I see it both options have benefits.
Option 1 Benifits:
- Joining as an NCM gives me experience as a troop, such as the ones I will one day lead in the future. This means I can look at the system from a different view, watch officers as my leaders and see what is good and what is bad. This, in my opinion, is a huge factor in learning how to be a good leader.
- Another factor of this would be respect. I am very much aware of the dislike many NCM/NCO's have for Officers and I was wondering if being an NCM for 5-10 years would help my future troops to understand I'm not some officer who bought his way through University and/or doesn't know what he's doing or what it's like for them.
- Another factor for joining the QOR is that they are a parachute reserve unit, and this means I'm already affiliated with a jump unit, will already get more parachute training with connections to get on more parachute courses, as well as on day transfer to a regular forces jump company (havn't decided who yet, should I have).

Option 2 Benefits:
- It is hard, especially now, to receive a position as an officer when hiring is at a minimum. I have been offered a spot with them as an Officer Cadet starting in January 2013, with (so I'm told) the ability to already be on course by the end of the month (so long as the paperwork is not messed up).
- I will already be an officer, and will be getting officer training right away. The Argylls as I've been told have good funding, which means they easily get their members on courses easily. Is this true?
- I will have more experience as a leader because I will have been an Officer longer, and as a young officer I will be very humble, learning from anyone and everyone I can as to what is the best way to lead.


I understand that being a young officer is often frowned upon as many of them can be cocky young kids with very little experience, and I can assure you I would never wish to be like that. Anyone who knows me knows I learn well from everyone, and am quick to learn.

If anybody knows any information I have overlooked regarding these two units, or would simply like to offer their opinion on the matter, please respond soon, as do not have long and this window of oppertunity regarding the officer position is closing fast.

Also, all individuals have a bias, either conscious or subconscious, so please give your rank and unit history if you wish to help me out with your personal imput, this way I will be able to tell what kind of bias you have. (In talking about biases I don't mean to be insulting it's just a factor of humanity).

Thank you all!
Sam Shepherd

If you have such a boner for jumping, then on the one hand the QOR would be the better choice. They jump occasionally, and then do all the same reserve infantry stuff. Other than the fact that they do some jump tasks and consequently have a bit of an isntructor mafia going on at CFLAWC (please do not mistake that with being 'airborne'- they are not), nothing really distinguishes them from other reserve infantry units. Nor does anything really make the Argyles stand out.

Getting officer spots these days is hard. I don't think you realzie to waht degree. If that is being offered to you and you want to be an officer today, you have much more to gain by doing that and then getting through your officer training. It is lenghty and time consuming.

If you perceive there to be a 'dislike' from NCMs/NCOs to officers, you are largely mistaken. There is a gap; it is simply that. There's a divide between the junior ranks and the SNCOs, and again between both and the officers. That's not 'dislike', and the professionals within all rank tranches respect each other. Some clowns have their heads up their asses, but should not be held to be reflective of the majority. While I have a bit fo a preference for officers who have served in the ranks, I have worked for excellent ones who have not- and shitpumps who have. It's not a decisive advantage, and some people have trouble shedding the NCM thing when they commission.

A reserve unit's funding is largely irrelevant for getting officers on basic training. They either need an officer or they don't. If they do, your course costs will be covered. Most of the cost is borne by the school anyway and not the unit.

Alternatively to both your options, why not apply to ROTP as an infantry officer? If reg force is your path, why not go directly to that route? Component transfers are by no means assured and can ve very time consuming.

When all is said and done, your rpeference for getting to a jump company will matter very little. I would not formualte any part of your plans based on that; if you get it, awesome, but don't latch plans onto it. I can think of very few worse criteria for which university you go to than one will occasionally let you jump out of a plane as a reservist.

 

[MikeL]

(If you feel that the course offered to cadets does not count as the actual military qualification then you are mistaken).

Thanks but I think the majority of us know that B Para is B Para.. a number of CF members(including some on this forum) got their wings through cadets.

Now, the real issue is that I have two options which have been offered to me, and I need to choose fast which one I wish to take.
First option: Join the QOR in Scarborough as an NCM while attending Trent University in Oshawa.

- Another factor for joining the QOR is that they are a parachute reserve unit, and this means I'm already affiliated with a jump unit, will already get more parachute training with connections to get on more parachute courses, as well as on day transfer to a regular forces jump company (havn't decided who yet, should I have).

The QOR is not a Airborne unit,  they have 1 Company that has a jump tasking.  The company in Scarborough is not the Jump Coy FYI,  60th Coy(located in Moss Park Armoury in Toronto) is the Jump Coy.

As well like others mentioned,  you do not get to pick and choose where you go.  That's great that you are B Para qual,  doesn't mean the CF will send you straight to a Light Battalion's Jump Coy,  you could just as easily go to a non Jump Coy in a Light Battalion or get posted to a Mechanized Battalion.

and as a young officer I will be very humble,

Are you sure about that?  Your Facebook pretty much screams B Para qual..  I can only imagine what it would look like after you start CF training.. and if you complete DP1.1

 

[The_Falcon]

Well if things don't work out, don't blame them on the one armed man. :warstory:

 

[GAP]

:

 

[PuckChaser]

The OP is hilarious.  op:

 

[Journeyman]

All meaningless responses.  :not-again:

Not one of you gave your rank and unit history, as directed, so that your credibility could be judged!


    op:

 

[PuckChaser]

I haven't reached the lofty heights of a Cadet MWO in 5 years so I didn't think it was important to list...

 

[brihard]

All meaningless responses.  :not-again:

Not one of you gave your rank and unit history, as directed, so that your credibility could be judged!


    op:

You're right of course, where are my manners? I did reach E-6 and completed jump school back when I played that America's Army game. And I played lawn darts once.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Greetings all.

My name is Samuel Shepherd, and I'm looking to become a para infantry officer as my career.

A little bit of my background which will probably effect your much appreciated advice is my cadet career. I've been in for 5 years, retiring as a MWO. Most significantly though would be my completion of the Basic Parachutist course at CFLAWC in the summer of 2011. (If you feel that the course offered to cadets does not count as the actual military qualification then you are mistaken). I was captain of the highschool rugby team, as well as head coach for the grade 7 & 8 team, so I have some leadership experience already from cadets and rugby.

Now, the real issue is that I have two options which have been offered to me, and I need to choose fast which one I wish to take.
First option: Join the QOR in Scarborough as an NCM while attending Trent University in Oshawa.
Second option: Join the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada as an Officer (a position is open and I have been offered it) while attending McMaster Univesity.

Now the way I see it both options have benefits.
Option 1 Benifits:
- Joining as an NCM gives me experience as a troop, such as the ones I will one day lead in the future. This means I can look at the system from a different view, watch officers as my leaders and see what is good and what is bad. This, in my opinion, is a huge factor in learning how to be a good leader.
- Another factor of this would be respect. I am very much aware of the dislike many NCM/NCO's have for Officers and I was wondering if being an NCM for 5-10 years would help my future troops to understand I'm not some officer who bought his way through University and/or doesn't know what he's doing or what it's like for them.
- Another factor for joining the QOR is that they are a parachute reserve unit, and this means I'm already affiliated with a jump unit, will already get more parachute training with connections to get on more parachute courses, as well as on day transfer to a regular forces jump company (havn't decided who yet, should I have).

Option 2 Benefits:
- It is hard, especially now, to receive a position as an officer when hiring is at a minimum. I have been offered a spot with them as an Officer Cadet starting in January 2013, with (so I'm told) the ability to already be on course by the end of the month (so long as the paperwork is not messed up).
- I will already be an officer, and will be getting officer training right away. The Argylls as I've been told have good funding, which means they easily get their members on courses easily. Is this true?
- I will have more experience as a leader because I will have been an Officer longer, and as a young officer I will be very humble, learning from anyone and everyone I can as to what is the best way to lead.


I understand that being a young officer is often frowned upon as many of them can be cocky young kids with very little experience, and I can assure you I would never wish to be like that. Anyone who knows me knows I learn well from everyone, and am quick to learn.

If anybody knows any information I have overlooked regarding these two units, or would simply like to offer their opinion on the matter, please respond soon, as do not have long and this window of oppertunity regarding the officer position is closing fast.

Also, all individuals have a bias, either conscious or subconscious, so please give your rank and unit history if you wish to help me out with your personal imput, this way I will be able to tell what kind of bias you have. (In talking about biases I don't mean to be insulting it's just a factor of humanity).

Thank you all!
Sam Shepherd

Join the British Army. Canadians can do that. They have the Parachute Regiment where you can be a Para Infantry Officer all you want, as long as you're one of the 10-12% that make it through the selection process, and your Pl 2IC lets you.  ;D

 

[GINge!]

Any reason you are not applying to RMC? Or as an earlier post mentioned ROTP Civy-U?

<- I was in Air Cadets for 4 years, but only ever got to LAC.

 

[cupper]

A little bit of my background which will probably effect your much appreciated advice is my cadet career. I've been in for 5 years, retiring as a MWO.

My question is if the OP is already retired, why look for a job. Enjoy your retirement. You've earned it.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Hey Sam, just some thoughts.


1. Edit your post and remove your last name.

2. If you're going to join the CF then jack up the security on your facebook account. Set it so only friends can view your personal information.

3. It's easy for someone to read your post and peg you as one of those dorks who 'just wanna be airborne' complete with the 4 airborne flags on your walls and wearing your airborne T-shirt to wonderland. 

4. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, why do you want to be a para infantry officer?  Do you mean an infantry officer with a jump course or an infantry officer in a position of leadership within a platoon or company?  You won't stay the latter in the Canadian Forces regular army for a long amount of time.  You could join the brits and take that route or if you're bent on being a para-infantry officer and staying within that realm you should join the QOR.

5. Instead of worrying what position you'll be in consider in which position and unit will you most be able to make the CF a stronger better place.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

...and with that good advice I'm locking this.
[unless someone has something meaningful to add]