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The entire war is Trump's fault. Good thing Europe has stepped into the breach.
Political impacts of Ukraine war
- Thread starter KevinB
- Start date
So if this is true (and I have no reason to doubt that it is) it's pure evil. Plain & simple.
I've learned over the years that often times, claims & narratives that claim the opposing force (battlefields, politicians, etc) are absolute monsters tends to be very clever pieces of information warfare (aka propoganda)
Not always. But sometimes.
Forcing African volunteer soldiers to strap landmines to themselves & blow themselves up absolutely infuriating, evil, and inhumane.
Exactly what an information war campaign wants to accomplish - it pisses people off, portrays the enemy as evil, and less than human. All extremely strong emotions.
It also motivates people to want to go kill the enemy to put an end to such atrocities, and can greatly assist with recruiting & gathering public support.
It also has the potential to discourage recruitment & public support for the enemy, both internationally and from their own citizenry.
...
I'm not saying this clip is propoganda.
But if I was waging an information warfare campaign against a country I was at war with, this is EXACTLY the kind of material I would attempt to produce & distribute to the masses on both sides...
(Just my own thoughts is all. If the clip is real, than the Russians are absolute monsters who need to be put down...but all of the psy-ops courses I've taken are telling me that given the intensity of that war, this is what someone wants me to think.)
Genuine question - why do you say this entire war is Trump's fault??
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He’s being sarcastic. Like Sleepy Joe and Snake Sullivan, Trump is prolonging it.
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I'm being sarcastic. Somehow every problem facing Ukraine has to be laid at Trump's door. Obviously the war started while Biden was president. Obviously it was the next bite taken after the Crimean occupation that happened while Obama was president. Obviously there will be another bite taken if the conflict is somehow suspended and Ukraine is not granted NATO membership before Russia is ready to resume.
The current phase started in Feb 2022. People who want to set things back in order - Europeans, Americans, Canadians, whomever - had almost three years to do something decisive about it before Trump was sworn in. Achievement: zero.
Almost dead silence about the collective and prolonged failure to either "win" or "end" it, and not anywhere near enough ridicule and disparaging contempt for the people who are content to just let the killing go on. But every time some new setback can be tied to Trump, the wailing about Trump starts anew.
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Have a wonder a bit about a 'what if' scenario when the Ukkies were pushing hard in their offensive clearing Kherson and Musk decided to shut down their internet comms during the same time period. Maybe that offensive would have been enough to push the Russian from the eastern bank and allowed the Ukkies to establish a sizeable beachhead and threaten the land connection to Crimea. Just might have tipped things sizably in their favour and things would be much different now. But we'll never know now will we.
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I don't have to wonder. Any gains would have been temporary. It's comforting to blame setbacks on "this one thing", especially if the "one thing" is a political bugbear, but it's not rational when multitudes of factors are in play.
If you want to wonder, wonder about "what if" a coalition of Europeans had gone hard and fast to ramp up and prosecute a campaign to evict Russia from Ukraine. Three years enough, you think? Trump would look even more ridiculous accusing Europeans of lacking spines. A lot of current angst might have been avoided.
Europe's fecklessness is all on Europe.
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This site has had multiple threads about the war, and the West's failure to support Ukraine effectively, since about March of 2022... I think your proclivity to be a contrarian is running into some real issues, and perhaps you should step back before beclowning yourself with more obviously false statements.
Many pages of real and digital articles have bemoaned the West's failure to support Ukraine enough, long before Trump was sworn in. That Trump has managed to make things worse for Ukraine is particularly noteworthy, but he isn't primarily to blame for the war, nor is he blameless.
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As I wrote, "almost". The theme song is Trump, with occasional shout-outs to everyone else. I exaggerate for effect sometimes, too.
Is there some forlorn hope out there that Trump is amenable to reasoned pleas to save Ukraine in ways that Europe is not?
HavokFour
Army.ca Veteran
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The OG smoking accident returns.
militarnyi.com
Russian Court Demands $29 Million from Ukrainian Navy Officer for Sinking of Moskva Missile Cruiser - Militarnyi
A Russian military court has effectively confirmed that the Moskva missile cruiser was hit by Ukrainian missiles and has revealed information about the number of crew members killed and missing
militarnyi.com
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Fossil
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Nailed it ....
it's been pretty clear from trump's comments that his idea of "saving Ukraine" is to surrender it to russia
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Right. So stop wasting time hoping Trump will do something, and stop wasting time even criticizing him for not doing something. Ignore him. At best he won't try to extract enough concessions from Russia; at worst he'll try to give away more than is necessary (none of which is his to give anyways).
Focus attention on whomever it is that is going to "save Ukraine". The first order of business would be to identify that country or group of countries, so that criticism can be directed. Who is it?
[Add: it will still be necessary to criticize Trump and his enablers in order to derail the Sanctioning Russia Act, which among other things would give him the authority to levy import tariffs of up to 500% against countries buying selected Russian exports. Apparently the potential cost that might fall on other nations is too high, and so it must join the set of "No, not that way" CoAs in the garbage can. Some sacrifices are too much to bear, even if they are only imagined.]
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