Politics in 2016

[Altair]

Considering he hasn't actually done anything, I'm not sure how you define "well".

I didn't say great or perfect, I said well.

Nobody is up in arms about anything he has or hasn't done, no gaffes, high approval ratings.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I didn't say great or perfect, I said well.

Nobody is up in arms about anything he has or hasn't done, no gaffes, high approval ratings.

Just because the media isn't saying anything doesn't mean people are happy with him.

And once more, for clarity, polls are useless and a crutch for those that can't research for themselves. Quoting them means nothing.

:micdrop:

 

[Altair]

Just because the media isn't saying anything doesn't mean people are happy with him.

And once more, for clarity, polls are useless and a crutch for those that can't research for themselves. Quoting them means nothing.

:micdrop:

The media is saying a lot. The media isn't following the honeymoon period.

I would ask how you would judge the public mood on trudeau, but I have no faith that you would offer anything but a snide remark based on truthiness.

 

[Kilo_302]

Just because the media isn't saying anything doesn't mean people are happy with him.

And once more, for clarity, polls are useless and a crutch for those that can't research for themselves. Quoting them means nothing.

:micdrop:

icks up mic, wipes off saliva:

Over 60% of Canadians voted for a party other than the Conservatives. The NDP and the Liberals were hard to tell apart in the last election, in fact the NDP ran to the right of the Liberals by rejecting temporary deficit spending, a central tenet of Keynesian economics. 3.5% of Canadians voted for the Green Party.

So we have approximately 65% of Canadians agreeing that climate change is an issue, that science needs to play a part in public policy, that xenophobia and racism based fears are largely unfounded (the Conservatives cynically tried to make Muslims an election issue), that universal healthcare ought to remain untouched, that refugees deserve healthcare while awaiting being processed, the list goes on.

I personally am not a fan of the Liberal Party or Trudeau for that matter, even if he has pleasantly surprised me in a couple areas. But I can accept as reality that most Canadians like him, the world seems to love him and he hasn't made any major mistakes yet.

And yes, polls can be wrong. But if you think most Canadians agree with your views you're living on another planet. This forum represents a significant departure from what most Canadians consider mainstream Canadian values, I have to break it to you.

You're living in a different world.

 

[PuckChaser]

60% of the voting population rejected Trudeau as well. You can't just trot out that statistic to constantly try to hammer the Conservatives.

Climate change shouldn't be political. Patrick Brown announced he supports a small carbon price model that is revenue neutral and isn't just a slush fund. Polar shift in party policy. What do the Liberals do? Try to make political hay out of their opposition changing their mind. That's not coming together to make our world a better place, that's negative politics that the Tories are vilified for. Let's all remember which party ran national TV ads stating their opponents were going to put troops on the streets of Toronto with guns.

 

[George Wallace]

:

icks up mic, wipes off saliva:

You may want to visit a medical center and get a rabies shot.

Over 60% of Canadians voted for a party other than the Conservatives. The NDP and the Liberals were hard to tell apart in the last election, in fact the NDP ran to the right of the Liberals by rejecting temporary deficit spending, a central tenet of Keynesian economics. 3.5% of Canadians voted for the Green Party.

So we have approximately 65% of Canadians agreeing that climate change is an issue, that science needs to play a part in public policy, that xenophobia and racism based fears are largely unfounded (the Conservatives cynically tried to make Muslims an election issue), that universal healthcare ought to remain untouched, that refugees deserve healthcare while awaiting being processed, the list goes on.

There you go, throwing around statistics to cover your point of view.  Meanwhile only 43% of Canadians actually voted in support of the Lieberals.  Does that not mean that less than 43% of Canadians actually believe in all that Climate Change Propaganda, opening the flood gates to migrants, shortening the wait time to become a Canadian Citizen, that giving migrants healthcare that no other Canadians are entitled to is the thing to do, that Union Leaders and First Nations Chiefs do not have to make their wages public, and other cases where "Transparency" has been overturned by the Liberal Government. and so so much more?

I personally am not a fan of the Liberal Party or Trudeau for that matter, even if he has pleasantly surprised me in a couple areas. But I can accept as reality that most Canadians like him, the world seems to love him and he hasn't made any major mistakes yet.

And yes, polls can be wrong. But if you think most Canadians agree with your views you're living on another planet. This forum represents a significant departure from what most Canadians consider mainstream Canadian values, I have to break it to you.

You're living in a different world.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but many Canadians are living in that "different world" that you seem to think anyone who doesn't agree with your views  are living in.  You can see them in many FaceBook pages.  You can see reports in major media outlets and on internet sites that show many finding fault with the Liberal Government of Justin Trudeau.  Parliamentary reporters like Brian Lilley and David Akin have not always been complementary towards Trudeau.  So, if you are under the impression that over 60% of Canadians are Trudeau lovers and enjoying Sunni Days because it is 2016, I might suggest it is you who is living on another planet.

 

[Brad Sallows]

A drum circle is happy and optimistic, but I wouldn't follow its recommendations and exhortations.

"Angry" is widely misused where "cautious" and "skeptical" and other words would properly fit.  I'm not an angry person, except where suffering fools is concerned (I can't bring myself to do that).  Against that, I suppose most progressives are tone deaf to the anger emanating from their own ranks on a daily basis in the news and social media.

Where do you suppose you will experience more anger and filth and crime?  At a TEA activist rally, or an Occupy site?

 

[Kilo_302]

:

You may want to visit a medical center and get a rabies shot.

There you go, throwing around statistics to cover your point of view.  Meanwhile only 43% of Canadians actually voted in support of the Lieberals.  Does that not mean that less than 43% of Canadians actually believe in all that Climate Change Propaganda, opening the flood gates to migrants, shortening the wait time to become a Canadian Citizen, that giving migrants healthcare that no other Canadians are entitled to is the thing to do, that Union Leaders and First Nations Chiefs do not have to make their wages public, and other cases where "Transparency" has been overturned by the Liberal Government. and so so much more?

Sorry to burst your bubble, but many Canadians are living in that "different world" that you seem to think anyone who doesn't agree with your views  are living in.  You can see them in many FaceBook pages.  You can see reports in major media outlets and on internet sites that show many finding fault with the Liberal Government of Justin Trudeau.  Parliamentary reporters like Brian Lilley and David Akin have not always been complementary towards Trudeau.  So, if you are under the impression that over 60% of Canadians are Trudeau lovers and enjoying Sunni Days because it is 2016, I might suggest it is you who is living on another planet.

The NDP, Green Party all accept that climate is a serious issue and that humans are the cause. So no, it does not mean less than 43% of Canadians believe "climate change propaganda" and everything else, because these parties all had the same or very similar stances on these issues. The Conservative Party was the outlier on most issues discussed during the campaign. Just as you are the outlier when it comes to widely held views in Canada. I am also an outlier on the opposite end of the spectrum. I've probably read just as many pieces that are critical of Trudeau as you, but from a leftist point of view. The difference between you and I is that I recognize my views don't represent the mainstream.

You'll notice that big business has not yet begun the exodus out of Canada. Do you know why that is? It's because they recognize the Liberal Party will be much the same as the Conservatives when it comes being friendly to corporate interests, but without provoking a socialist or neo-fascist backlash we're seeing the US. There is no vast panic across Canada that Trudeau is going to embark on some socialist crusade, in fact a lot of business leaders welcome him as a return to good old fashioned centrist Canada. He's predictable and stable, just like Chretien and Mulroney before him. Business leaders don't give a shit how terrified of Muslims you are George, and they're calling the shots.

 

[George Wallace]

Sorry Kilo....but I find your stats very flawed; but if you want to live with that delusion, I will not suffer you any further discourse.

 

[Kilo_302]

Sorry Kilo....but I find your stats very flawed; but if you want to live with that delusion, I will not suffer you any further discourse.

There are objective truths in the world. Which stats are flawed? The 2015 election results? The math does not lie. A clear majority of Canadians rejected the Conservativr position on a myriad of issues. I will repeat, the NDP and Liberal parties have extremely similar positions on most major issues. It therefore follows that the clear majority of Canadians agree on most major issues. This shouldn't be terribly hard to follow...

 

[Altair]

60% of the voting population rejected Trudeau as well. You can't just trot out that statistic to constantly try to hammer the Conservatives.

Climate change shouldn't be political. Patrick Brown announced he supports a small carbon price model that is revenue neutral and isn't just a slush fund. Polar shift in party policy. What do the Liberals do? Try to make political hay out of their opposition changing their mind. That's not coming together to make our world a better place, that's negative politics that the Tories are vilified for. Let's all remember which party ran national TV ads stating their opponents were going to put troops on the streets of Toronto with guns.

I guess I'll just never forget the conservatives playing identity politics and trying to make a barbaric practices hotline. 5, 10, 15 years from now I'll drag that one out.

Or I'll accept that different leaders have different policies and as a result will do things differently.

I don't know yet.

The NDP, Green Party all accept that climate is a serious issue and that humans are the cause. So no, it does not mean less than 43% of Canadians believe "climate change propaganda" and everything else, because these parties all had the same or very similar stances on these issues. The Conservative Party was the outlier on most issues discussed during the campaign. Just as you are the outlier when it comes to widely held views in Canada. I am also an outlier on the opposite end of the spectrum. I've probably read just as many pieces that are critical of Trudeau as you, but from a leftist point of view. The difference between you and I is that I recognize my views don't represent the mainstream.

You'll notice that big business has not yet begun the exodus out of Canada. Do you know why that is? It's because they recognize the Liberal Party will be much the same as the Conservatives when it comes being friendly to corporate interests, but without provoking a socialist or neo-fascist backlash we're seeing the US. There is no vast panic across Canada that Trudeau is going to embark on some socialist crusade, in fact a lot of business leaders welcome him as a return to good old fashioned centrist Canada. He's predictable and stable, just like Chretien and Mulroney before him. Business leaders don't give a crap how terrified of Muslims you are George, and they're calling the shots.

Best to leave him be Kilo.

If he believes it's best to read into the comments on Facebook pages and news comments section as opposed to pollsters who have this down to a science, who might not be perfect but are the best way to gauge politicians support that I know of, just leave him to it.

I will say this though. I remember a lot of those CPC supporters on Facebook saying that the pollsters were wrong, it was a liberal conspiracy from the left wing media party, that Canada would never elect another trudeau, the silent majority would turn up on Oct 19th, that the liberals had dropped seats in the last 4 elections and this would be the 5th...

We all know how that turned out.

 

[PuckChaser]

Putting people into cabinet based on race and gender quotas instead of best person for the job isn't identity politics? We must have completely different definitions again. Those in glass houses and all that...

 

[jmt18325]

Putting people into cabinet based on race and gender quotas

Because this is the first time that ever happened.

 

[PuckChaser]

Because this is the first time that ever happened.

First time it was bragged about as the proper way to do things.

 

[jmt18325]

First time it was bragged about as the proper way to do things.

It was really no different than the bragging about regional or ethnic representation.  I'm not sure what the problem is with adding gender to the mix.  It's not like most people that become MPs aren't capable, or especially the people that were selected.

 

[Kilo_302]

First time it was bragged about as the proper way to do things.

Women represent 51% of the population. They do not however represent 51% of business leaders or politicians. There are only two possible reasons for this. Either they aren't skilled, intelligent or inclined to fill these rolls, or there is a legacy of sexism that still exists.

I think most people agree that the latter is the reality. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with Trudeau making half his cabinet (which consists of elected MPs anyway) female.

The only people who seem to have a problem with this are religious fundamentalists who are terrified of women, or white men who somehow think affirmative action makes them victims...and are also terrified of women.

Which one are you Puckchaser?

 

[PuckChaser]

It was really no different than the bragging about regional or ethnic representation.  I'm not sure what the problem is with adding gender to the mix.  It's not like most people that become MPs aren't capable, or especially the people that were selected.

Gotcha. Don't pick the best person, pick based on a quota of whatever flavour of the day people feel are under represented. Next Cabinet will have someone from the Queer Transgendered Two-spirited Pakistani group who self identifies as a battleship. Why? Because its 2016 and we still can't see past people's race and gender.

 

[a_majoor]

Don't forget that many of these women are not ministers, but Cabinet Secretaries, who have have far less pay or responsibility than Ministers.

Because 2016!

 

[MARS]

Women represent 51% of the population. They do not however represent 51% of business leaders or politicians.

I think you will find this is far, far more wide-spread than just those two sectors of the work force

The only people who seem to have a problem with this are religious fundamentalists who are terrified of women, or white men who somehow think affirmative action makes them victims...and are also terrified of women.

Again, I don't think this is restricted to religious fundamentalists or white men only...this is something that happens across many (most? all?) cultures, races and countries, regardless of their political system, religious beliefs, etc. 

 

[Good2Golf]

So, Kilo, what should we do about the 117,000 women nurses who are 'unfairly' holding more nursing positions in Canada than they are entitled to by gender proportion?

In 2010, there were 268,000 registered nurses and 96% of them were women (251,000 women, 17,000 men). (Ref: https://www.cna-aiic.ca/~/media/cna/page-content/pdf-en/2010_rn_snapshot_e.pdf )

Should we actually let the gender overage of 117,000 women nurses be reduced through regular attrition and only hire male nurses for the next 13 to 16 years until we have gender parity in the nursing profession?

G2G