Politics in 2016

[jmt18325]

I'm not sure where the parties were at this point in previous parliaments, but no leader in recent memory has had an approval rating as high as Trudeau.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Sure he's as popular as that other Justin at the moment.  The day will come when the packs of voters will outside his gatehouse with pitchforks and torches, tar and feathers.  His cachet will smell like a unburied corpse that will have become his reputation with the voters.  Gloat while you can now, our day will come.

 

[jmt18325]

Sure he's as popular as that other Justin at the moment.  The day will come when the packs of voters will outside his gatehouse with pitchforks and torches, tar and feathers.  His cachet will smell like a unburied corpse that will have become his reputation with the voters.  Gloat while you can now, our day will come.

I'm sure that day will happen.  I'm not gloating, I'm simply pointing out that the prevailing view on this forum is the opposite of the prevailing view in the general public at the moment.  People should be mindful of that when making their various analysis.

 

[Journeyman]

..... the prevailing view on this forum is the opposite of the prevailing view in the general public at the moment.

Personally, I don't believe that there is a "prevailing view" here  (beyond 'whoever disagrees with me is simply wrong' ). 

I'd say there's about an equal percentage who are mindless cheerleaders as there are mindless haters;  I'm sure we could make a column for each team, write in 3-4 names, and most people would go, "ya, that's about right." 

Rather, the overwhelming majority "on this forum" seem divided between: 1) not an issue I care about;  2) wait and see; and  3) show me facts and I'll revisit as we go along (the 'opinion' versus 'informed opinion' crowd).
It's only a select, but largely numerically equal, repetitive bunch who are into the  ":deadhorse:" mode.



As for the "prevailing view in the general public," forgive me if I choose not to have my thinking dictated by sheep;  I will stick to Stevie Ray Vaughan over Justin Bieber, thanks.

But then, I may be simply wrong.          Enjoy  op:

 

[jollyjacktar]

And the very same general public thought that PMSH was the greatest thing since sliced bread when he was shiny and new too.  The public adoration doesn't mean a bloody thing in the long run quite honestly.  Perhaps the prevailing view that is here is not as gullible as the great unwashed.  After all, many of us here remember his Liberal and Conservative predecessors all too well, including the father.  I'm not going to be susceptible to Trudeau-mania, sorry.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Journeyman: To paraphrase Lord Nelson:

"No poster can do very wrong if he sticks to Stevie Ray Vaughan over Justin Bieber."


Nelson would have said that be he still alive today, I am sure.  :nod:

 

[Kirkhill]

Journeyman: To paraphrase Lord Nelson:

"No poster can do very wrong if he sticks to Stevie Ray Vaughan over Justin Bieber."


Nelson would have said that be he still alive today, I am sure.  :nod:

:goodpost:  ;D

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'm sure that day will happen.  I'm not gloating, I'm simply pointing out that the prevailing view on this forum is the opposite of the prevailing view in the general public at the moment.  People should be mindful of that when making their various analysis.

That would depend where you hang out. Don't forget the difference in votes for CPC vs the Libs is just 8%. The Libs are going to shed some of those votes as people becomes dissatisfied with them and they made lot's of big sweeping promises that are going to be difficult to fulfill. The Conservative get a chance to rebuild and Rona is doing a great job in giving them covering fire while they do. 

 

[jmt18325]

And the very same general public thought that PMSH was the greatest thing since sliced bread when he was shiny and new too.  The public adoration doesn't mean a bloody thing in the long run quite honestly.  Perhaps the prevailing view that is here is not as gullible as the great unwashed.  After all, many of us here remember his Liberal and Conservative predecessors all too well, including the father.  I'm not going to be susceptible to Trudeau-mania, sorry.

That's why I pointed out that Harper never once enjoyed this level of support.  Certainly not for this long.  I'm sure it will end, but not soon.

 

[jmt18325]

That would depend where you hang out. Don't forget the difference in votes for CPC vs the Libs is just 8%. The Libs are going to shed some of those votes as people becomes dissatisfied with them and they made lot's of big sweeping promises that are going to be difficult to fulfill. The Conservative get a chance to rebuild and Rona is doing a great job in giving them covering fire while they do.

Almost everyone around me is about as anti Trudeau as you could get. The prevailing public wisdom in the country is far better measured by polls using appropriate methods.

 

[jollyjacktar]

"public wisdom"  now, there's an oxymoron for you.

 

[PuckChaser]

That's why I pointed out that Harper never once enjoyed this level of support.  Certainly not for this long.  I'm sure it will end, but not soon.

Stephen Harper had an approval rating of 61% after his election win in 2006 according to threehundredeight.com. Would you like to make any more unsubstantiated claims, or are you good now?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Almost everyone around me is about as anti Trudeau as you could get. The prevailing public wisdom in the country is far better measured by polls using appropriate methods.

and what methods would that be? Polling is likely to be one of the most affected professions by technology and social shifts. I have very little faith in it and the residual effect of corporate knowledge to interpret against historical polling data is going to fade. 

 

[George Wallace]

So!  I would put this in the WTF files, but last time I did that it got moved here anyway;

Here are some truly "Ivory Tower Good Idea Faerie" moronic proposals, that are too unrealistic other than give a "Feel Good Feeling" and "Vote Buy" on the part of the Liberal Government:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Liberal Party Convention To Discuss Indigenous Peoples, Pushing Platform Further
CP  |  By Joan Bryden
Posted: 05/14/2016 12:33 pm EDT Updated: 05/14/2016 12:59 pm EDT

OTTAWA — Rank and file Liberals are urging the federal government to ensure that every third governor general appointed in Canada is an indigenous person and that aboriginal languages are granted official language status.

Those two measures are among a raft of policy resolutions to be debated at the ruling party's first policy convention since winning power last October.

Almost 20 per cent of some 80 resolutions involve aboriginal issues, reflecting an apparent effort by grassroots Liberals to put meat on the bones of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's vow to create a new relationship with indigenous peoples.

Among them, are resolutions to:

    -Rotate the appointment of the governor general between anglophones, francophones and aboriginals.

    -Grant official language status to aboriginal languages and provide necessary funding for language preservation.

      -Pay for First Nations and Inuit peoples' dental, optical, prescription drug and other health-care costs not covered under universal medicare.

    -Require all Liberal MPs, candidates and nomination contestants to receive training regarding indigenous policy, history and culture before receiving a green light to run by the party.

Biggest item: Overhauling party constitution

Resolutions approved at conventions are not binding on the party or the leader. But in the past they have presaged some major official policy shifts for the Liberals, including legalization of same sex marriage and marijuana.

There are no similarly bold resolutions on offer at the convention to be held later this month in Winnipeg, no doubt a reflection of the fact that the ruling party has only just begun to deliver on more than 150 ambitious promises made during last fall's campaign.

The biggest item on the agenda involves not policy but the internal operations of the Liberal party: a proposal to overhaul its constitution to, among other things, do away with the concept of membership, giving anyone willing to register as a Liberal the opportunity to vote in leadership and nomination contests, attend conventions and take part in policy development.

Still, there are some resolutions that would push the government to go further than the campaign platform, calling for such things as:

    -A guaranteed minimum income.

    -Expansion of universal health care to include pharmacare, home care and palliative care.

    -Turning the federal portion of student loans into grants for low-income families in 2017 and for middle-income families in 2018.

    -Lower the voting age to 16.

    -Repeal the previous Conservative government's anti-terrorism legislation, whereas the platform promised only to repeal or amend some provisions.

Lofty proposals: women, Islamophobia, LGBTQ issues, environment

There's also no shortage of lofty proposals, such as the Liberal women's commission's resolution calling for the creation of a department of peace and non-violence, with a mandate to create a civilian service of professionally trained people working to prevent war and resolve conflict in Canada and around the globe.

The women's commission also wants the government to create a panel to recommend ways to improve prevention, reporting and prosecution of sexual assault, considering changes including the creation of specialized sexual assault courts and requiring both the accused and victim to testify.

The Ontario wing of the party is proposing to strike a task force aimed at elimination of "all forms of Islamophobia.''

The party's youth commission wants the government to introduce legislation establishing the right to an "ecologically balanced environment'' as a human right and to offer safe haven to "climate refugees'' displaced by climate change.

It also wants the government to establish a department of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered equity and to give refuge to LGBTQ refugees fleeing persecution.

There are no resolutions specifically on the thorny question of pipelines which bedeviled the recent NDP convention. But in contrast to the Leap Manifesto, which New Democrats agreed to consider and which was widely seen as anti-pipeline and anti-oil industry, the Alberta wing of the Liberal party has a resolution that recognizes the sector as "a significant employer'' and calls for retraining for workers whose jobs are lost in the transition away from fossil fuels.

However, another resolution, from the Nova Scotia wing, calls for a creation of national standards for carbon pricing and a phase-out of fossil fuel subsidies over the next five years.

Not all the resolutions will actually be put to a vote at the convention. Most will wind up being discussed only in a series of five policy workshops, each of which will choose two resolutions to send to the plenary session, along with 13 priority resolutions that will automatically go to the plenary.

More on LINK.



So?

Among them, are resolutions to:

    -Rotate the appointment of the governor general between anglophones, francophones and aboriginals.

This is now setting up a "Quota System" in selecting the Governor General, where there is no need for one.

    -Grant official language status to aboriginal languages and provide necessary funding for language preservation.

How many "Official Languages" does Canada need?  Which aboriginal languages will be chosen and which will not? 

      -Pay for First Nations and Inuit peoples' dental, optical, prescription drug and other health-care costs not covered under universal medicare.

Is this not discriminating against the rest of the Canadian population and creating a CLASS SYSTEM that rewards some and penalizes others?

    -Require all Liberal MPs, candidates and nomination contestants to receive training regarding indigenous policy, history and culture before receiving a green light to run by the party.

Nice sentiment, but what about other cultures?  This is creating another form of "Discrimination" in hiring/selection.  We already have Language discrimination in many hiring practices in the country.

    -A guaranteed minimum income.

A "Socialist" pipe dream that only raises other costs and will create another need to raise minimum income that will again raise other costs, again raising an need to raise the minimum income, which......

    -Expansion of universal health care to include pharmacare, home care and palliative care.

If reports of free medical and dental service to aboriginals is on the table, why not for all citizens?  Or are we to create different Classes of Canadians?  Then again, these are Provincial responsibilities, not Federal.

    -Turning the federal portion of student loans into grants for low-income families in 2017 and for middle-income families in 2018.

We have covered this in other discussions and identified the fact that the Education Institutions still want their money, which means others will have to pay more.

    -Lower the voting age to 16.

Seriously?  Is someone on drugs?  Looking at the Criminal Code, sixteen year olds' are still treated as MINORS in the courts.  Which way will this go?  Will Minors get the Vote; or will sixteen year olds' not be treated as Adults in the Courts?

    -Repeal the previous Conservative government's anti-terrorism legislation, whereas the platform promised only to repeal or amend some provisions.

A truly frightening indication that this Government has no concepts of "National Security" and the many threats the are out there that may be threatening Canada.

 

[PuckChaser]

I can't get French language training, but they're going to expect me to learn a First Nations language to get promoted? Do I get to pick which one of the hundreds there are?

 

[Remius]

Sorry George, but some of those ideas are not as crazy as you are making them out to be.  And keep in mind they are just resolutions to be debated upon not necessarily written in stone.

For one thing I could care less what they force their MPs and candidates to do in order to run.  Their party, their rules.  If they want to take sensitivety training let them fill their boots.

Some of them are a bit far fetched like guaranteed income.

But voting age to sixteen isn't all that far fetched.  At sixteeen you can drive, and chances are you are PAYING TAXES with your part or full time job.  At 16 you can join RMC and at 17 you can join the remainder of the CAF.  Your link to the criminal code is a bit far off when you look at the other things that justify it.  Studies also show that the earlier age that you vote, the more likely you are to be a regular voter for life. 

I would argue that with the Indian act we already are creating a different class of citizen.  Fact is, is that Indigenous peoples in canada have a lower life expectancy than the average Canadian.  I've seen first hand (In INUIT communities at least) the sorry state of dental care...

Expanding universal healthcare is likely a response to an aging population.  Something we are very much not prepared for.  Homecare, palliative care etc is sorely lacking and something needs to be done.

I don't disagree with some of your points but I'll disagree on some of the others.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I have no doubt that Natives in Canada have had and are still having a raw deal, and that this should be changed so they can reap the same benefits of being Canadians as every body else without having to renounce their ancestral roots, something we don't even ask immigrants to do (and in fact rather encourage to keep).

However, this idea of making Native languages "official" languages of Canada is sheer lunacy. I wonder if they understand that it would mean that every single one of those languages would be permitted use in Parliament, that every federal communication, document, federal court decision, conference, etc, etc would have to be translated or interpreted into these official languages. We already incur delays that are way too long in getting everything out in French and English. Adding Native languages would mean nothing would ever get out.

Moreover, StatsCan data* indicates this would be done for no more than 213,500 people in Canada who report Native language as their mother tongue and main language used at home. This number is split between more than 60 such Native languages, With Cree (84,000), Inutittut (35,500) and Ojibway (20,000) being the most prevalent, even though the experts claim that of all these, only Cree and Inutittut have any chance of surviving past 2050 (research done at Laval university - sorry, I can't find the link). To contrast this, also according to StatsCan, there are 13 languages spoken at home by immigrants to Canada that are spoken by more than 84,000 people each.

As for the idea of a Minimum Guaranteed Income, the idea has been discussed somewhere in our own forum, and as found then, is not necessarily a bad idea, in its function as a replacement for all the various support programs for the less favoured members of society. It is, however, a Provincial jurisdiction, as are, BTW, pharmacare, home care, and dental care. But it would not be a new thing for the Federal Liberals to invade provincial jurisdictions on the basis of the Federal spending power. I think the concept was invented by Trudeau senior - or at least abused the most by him if he didn't invent it. BTW, two provinces have always been vigorously opposed to use of such power by the Fed. and always fought it side by side: Quebec and Alberta! 

*: https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/as-sa/98-314-x/98-314-x2011003_3-eng.cfm

 

[mariomike]

At 16 you can join RMC and at 17 you can join the remainder of the CAF. 

I don't follow party politics, but, "Reserve Force - Applicants may be 16 years of age if they are also enrolled as a full-time high school student."

 

[Remius]

I don't follow party politics, but, "Reserve Force - Applicants may be 16 years of age if they are also enrolled as a full-time high school student."

I think you can apply at 16 but need to be 17 for enrolment.

Either way if you can serve the country you should be allowed to vote.

 

[mariomike]

I think you can apply at 16 but need to be 17 for enrolment.

I joined the militia when I was 16, but that was a long time ago. There are many pages of discussion on here about the joining age in the PRes.

You had to be 21 ( at that time in Ontario ) to drink though, so I can see your political point of view. 

But, you could smoke at age 16. Even younger if you went to a vending machine, ( or told the store they were for your mother ). Maybe that's why I was a smoker ( while still in short pants ), but was never much of a drinker?