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Politics in 2018

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whiskey601 said:
Ref the earlier discussions about use of information to fill jury pools, there is an article pin todays Toronto star about this regarding problems with Ontario's system:
https://www.thestar.com/news/investigations/2018/02/16/how-a-broken-jury-list-makes-ontario-justice-whiter-richer-and-less-like-your-community.html

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"A two-year Toronto Star/Ryerson School of Journalism investigation documenting the racial makeup of jurors in 52 criminal trials since 2016 in Toronto and Brampton reveals flaws in the jury selection process that skews towards property owners, fails to reflect the GTA’s growing diversity and excludes potentially millions of Ontarians from serving their civic duty.

The jury selection list is based on the province’s property assessment rolls, excluding many renters, boarders, students, seniors, spouses who are not named on property titles, transient and low-income people, Indigenous people and those unable to afford property in a red-hot real estate market.

What remains is a prospective juror list disproportionately comprised of white Ontarians able to afford the significant costs of serving in a system that often pays jurors less than minimum wage and does not cover expenses such as travel, parking, meals and child care. It is a particular hardship for hourly workers — Ontario has no law compelling companies to compensate employees for jury duty — the self-employed or those in temporary or contract jobs."
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Something is wrong with their information. I know people who rent, are mature students (white,asian, female), and have been called to jury duty in Ontario.

Not really.  It says "excluding many renters blah blah..."  not all.  The policy in Ontario is definitely biasing the jury pool. And everything about paying jurors garbage is correct.  And the loss of wages is a real issue.  The entire jury selection/list process could do with some significant updating/overhaul.  Perhaps using voting lists to select jurors.  That would also help ensure that people who are selected for jury duty actually live where they are supposed to vote.  However that might just encourage people not to vote (don't want to get called for jury duty...lol)
 
whiskey601 said:
Might not be what the PC party needs, but a hard swing to the fiscal and ethical right as an immediate correction is what the province of Ontario needs. That does not mean "social conservatism" but it does mean getting financially lean and shedding a lot of government involvement and politically correct regulatory involvement in things that are creating divisions, not solving problems and generally dragging the province down.


Right now I’d settle for fiscally in the middle given the spending and waste this current government has done.

To be honest if the PC party picks a social conservative or a populist then Wynne will steal the election. Again.
 
whiskey601 said:
Might not be what the PC party needs, but a hard swing to the fiscal and ethical right as an immediate correction is what the province of Ontario needs. That does not mean "social conservatism" but it does mean getting financially lean and shedding a lot of government involvement and politically correct regulatory involvement in things that are creating divisions, not solving problems and generally dragging the province down.

I would be happy with a government that is friendly towards drivers. The gas tax needs to go into building more roads as well as public transit. 
 
The problem is that money does go to roads but end up building bike lanes and bike paths instead of going where it is needed.
 
Remius said:
Right now I’d settle for fiscally in the middle given the spending and waste this current government has done.

To be honest if the PC party picks a social conservative or a populist then Wynne will steal the election. Again.

Or the NDP *suppresses a shudder*.

Piece of Cake said:
I would be happy with a government that is friendly towards drivers. The gas tax needs to go into building more roads as well as public transit. 

There is a conservative way forward here with regards to gas and carbon taxes.  Gas and carbon taxes are consumption taxes.  Consumption taxes as far as taxes go are generally progressive taxes.  They tax use. 

Income taxes I think most of us can agree are regressive taxes.  Badly implemented income taxes discourage work, innovation etc...  Income taxes should be lowered to encourage people to work more or keep more of their money to invest on improving their lives.

Gas should/needs to be taxed.  It's a proxy for road use, a shared service.  I suppose we could all just pay tolls on all our roads instead but that's not really practical without either large amounts of inconvenience (toll booths) or invasion of privacy (GPS tracking of where your car drives).  Carbon taxes are generally (philosophically) the same thing.  They tax pollution of a shared resource (no arguments about whether carbon is a pollutant or not pls, other threads for that, just using it as an example) which is the air and environment.

So the PC plan to get votes in Ontario should be as follows.  Scap the bureaucratic and idiot carbon market.  That is just ripe for corruption a la Europe's example.  Implement the carbon tax.  Use the proceeds of the carbon tax to reduce income taxes (like BC does which is genius).  The income taxes that are reduced should be the minimum personal exemption so all Ontarians benefit.  The goal for this reduction should be to hit approximately $20,000 of exemption.  This also means that no minimum wage increase is necessary to $15 because the take home pay of those working minimum wage jobs just got quite a bit higher.

This does a few things.  One it doesn't damage small business with min wage increases.  It allows all Ontarians to take home pay and equally distributes the actual amount of lower taxes to all tax brackets.  But it disproportionately benefits poor and middle income families.  $3000 more take home is not that much to the six figure crowd but its a huge amount to the min wage crowd.  Depending on where you live that could be two or three months rent, a lot of groceries, or daycare for one kid for 37 seconds.  It also discourages harmful behaviour of pollution, and people pay for the use of a shared resource.

I'd vote for that in a second.  Not this school sex ed crap again.
 
Underway said:
Not this school sex ed crap again.

Not to disagree, but it's a political hot-button for some Ontario voters,
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&biw=1280&bih=603&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=7KSIWoqPLoi0tQXXwrfoAg&q=%22sex+education%22+ontario+protest&oq=%22sex+education%22+ontario+protest&gs_l=psy-ab.3...21406.27074.0.28501.25.18.0.0.0.0.136.1598.14j4.18.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..11.0.0....0.An_8QE20w2Y


 
Piece of Cake said:
I would be happy with a government that is friendly towards drivers. The gas tax needs to go into building more roads as well as public transit.

Too many roads already, treated as a free good, and too expensive to maintain.  Made worse by urban sprawl, and suburbs that refuse to pay their fair share of taxes.

Start charging for use of roads and you'll find demand shrinks.
 
Don't know where you live, but shortage of family Doctors, specialists (and up to a year + wait to see one), wait times for MRI's (family MD can not request: must be from specialists), other special tests wait times, shortage of hospital beds, and percentage of all Provincial budget.

Meanwhile we can't afford Vets, and are running recession type deficits. Now for example, Grandpa/Grandpa/Grandma/Grandma who have a  disablity can now emigrate to get Old Age Security, free health care and vote (LIBERAL).


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/immigration-hussen-medical-inadmissibility-1.4537076

Ottawa to present plan to amend policy that rejects immigrants on medical grounds by April, Hussen says - 15 Feb 18
Immigration minister says he has to consider impact on provincial budgets

Extract: 1. Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen said today he will present a plan by April to amend an outdated policy that excludes immigrants based on their medical conditions — but the NDP wants quicker action to end the "discriminatory" clause.

NDP immigration critic Jenny Kwan held a news conference today calling on the government to repeal a section of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act that allows applicants to be rejected because they could impose an "excessive demand" on the health care system. She said the issue has been on the government's radar since 2016, yet the "discriminatory" policy that causes "heartache and hardship" remains.

            2. A spokesperson for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC) said the department has been reviewing the policy "with the goal of ensuring that applicants are treated in a fair and equitable manner, and that the policy aligns with Canadian values regarding the inclusion of persons with disabilities in society, while also recognizing the need to protect publicly-paid health and social services."

            3. Maurice Tomlinson, senior policy analyst at The Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network, warned that the government must repeal the clause, not rework it. "Any tinkering with it would only perpetuate discrimination against persons with disabilities," he said. "This hurtful, stigmatizing and unnecessary regime must end."
 
dapaterson said:
Too many roads already, treated as a free good, and too expensive to maintain.  Made worse by urban sprawl, and suburbs that refuse to pay their fair share of taxes.

Start charging for use of roads and you'll find demand shrinks.

As a person who takes the 407 on a regular basis, I would agree.  However, when I look at roads that have the same number of lanes since the 1980s, it is clear that our transportation infrastructure has not kept up with the times.
 
Rifleman62 said:
Don't know where you live, but shortage of family Doctors, specialists (and up to a year + wait to see one), wait times for MRI's (family MD can not request: must be from specialists), other special tests wait times, shortage of hospital beds, and percentage of all Provincial budget.

Meanwhile we can't afford Vets, and are running recession type deficits. Now for example, Grandpa/Grandpa who have a  disablity can now emigrate to get Old Age Security, free health care and vote (LIBERAL).

Grandpa/grandpa? How progressive of you!
 
dapaterson said:
Too many roads already, treated as a free good, and too expensive to maintain.  Made worse by urban sprawl, and suburbs that refuse to pay their fair share of taxes.

Start charging for use of roads and you'll find demand shrinks.

Tried and failed. The city tried to toll the Gardiner Expressway and Don Valley Parkway - roads they own and and maintain - to fund more subways and "Smart Track".

Queen's Park would not allow it. The city can't even install a speed bump without first asking Queen's Park for permission.
 
Underway said:
Income taxes I think most of us can agree are regressive taxes.
Well, many of the boutique credits that seem to be popular amongst federal Conservatives are regressive but, otherwise, I don’t think most could agree that income tax is inherently regressive ... in fact some have argued on these board that Canadian income taxes are too progressive and risk chasing the wealthy away.

But we can agree on consumption taxes.  If they are levied against luxuries, they are progressive ... but if they start raising the cost of necessities, like food or getting to work, then maybe not so much.
 
Remius said:
Right now I’d settle for fiscally in the middle given the spending and waste this current government has done.

To be honest if the PC party picks a social conservative or a populist then Wynne will steal the election. Again.

The problem for the PC party is that they seem to want to always, as has been noted, go socially conservative. The problem with that is that the vast majority of people in Ontario live within urban areas (11 million to 1.8 million in 2011) and have little interest in pro-choice (why even bring this up....) or other social conservative ideals.

They need to stick with discussing smaller government and lower spending/taxes and get away from this garbage. Or else they will trade winning in Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound for losing the 30-ish ridings in Toronto. If they do what the PC's did in Manitoba- look at a map and realize that half the province lives in one place so being un-electable in that place was a bad idea -  than they can dis-lodge the Liberals. If they try to cater to rural conservatives than they'll lose again. It's that simple.
 
I was personally expecting the Ontario Tories to implode in late April / early May; they're ahead of schedule. 

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2018/02/patrick-brown-doug-ford-likely-split-important-asshole-vote-tory-leadership-race/
 
Underway said:
Not really.  It says "excluding many renters blah blah..."  not all.  The policy in Ontario is definitely biasing the jury pool. And everything about paying jurors garbage is correct.  And the loss of wages is a real issue.  The entire jury selection/list process could do with some significant updating/overhaul.  Perhaps using voting lists to select jurors.  That would also help ensure that people who are selected for jury duty actually live where they are supposed to vote.  However that might just encourage people not to vote (don't want to get called for jury duty...lol)

From Ontario's Ministry of the Attorney Generals website:

Jury Roll Process

May:

Required number of jurors is calculated

Jurors can be required for criminal trials, civil trials and Coroner's inquests. Each of the 50 Superior Court of Justice locations in Ontario calculates the number of jurors they will need for the upcoming year. They consider several factors, such as the number of jurors required in previous years and the anticipated number of trials. They send their estimates to the Provincial Jury Centre.

September – November:

Questionnaires sent to potential jurors

Video clip: "Questionnaires are the first step"

To meet the estimated demand for jurors, juror questionnaires are mailed to people who are selected randomly from the most recent municipal enumeration (voters’) lists. For people living in a First Nation community, other lists, like Band lists, are used.

The questionnaire mailing includes a letter from the Attorney General, an instruction sheet and prepaid reply envelope.

People completing the questionnaire are invited to call one of two toll-free lines: one line provides recorded instructions on how to complete the questionnaire and one line reaches representatives at the Provincial Jury Centre who can answer questions about the questionnaire or the summons.

People who receive a questionnaire complete and return it in the pre-paid envelope. The completed questionnaires are used to determine whether a person is eligible for jury duty.

December:

Jury roll created and certified

Jurors are sorted for eligibility for jury duty. Jurors need to be Canadian citizens and at least 18 years old. Anyone who has attended court for jury duty in the previous three years cannot serve again. People in certain professions like firefighters, police officers and doctors as well as people convicted of a broad range of criminal offences are excluded from serving.

People who are eligible to serve are put on a list of potential jurors called the jury roll. The jury roll includes the name, address and occupation of the potential jurors. Once the jury roll is created, it is certified as accurate and complete. Jury panels are randomly selected from this list.

Last summer I received one of those letters and I'm a renter.

Link
 
Rifleman62 said:
Don't know where you live, but shortage of family Doctors, specialists (and up to a year + wait to see one), wait times for MRI's (family MD can not request: must be from specialists), other special tests wait times, shortage of hospital beds, and percentage of all Provincial budget.

While this is true, it has nothing to do with politics. The shortage of doctors in Ontario is a result of the lack of medical students spots in med school. The reason for the lack of spots? The college of physicians and surgeons control these numbers.  It is sad that Canadians students have to leave Ontario to go to med school and then come back to Ontario to practice.... with a lot of student debt... If they come back at all.
 
whiskey601 said:
attached ...
Thanks very much for posting that. A fascinating read, and one that many people shooting off their mouths on both sides should consider. One thing is very clear: Gerald Stanley very clearly had reason to be afraid for his life and that of his family. Second, that the young people in that car were obviously on a rampage of some sort. That alone doesn't justify Boushie's death, but it casts quite a different light on the moment.
 
Loachman said:
I am not necessarily a fan of lengthy sentences, or of simply caging somebody, unless that person has demonstrated and continues to display uncontrollable violent tendencies from which the public deserves, and must have, protection. Public protection absolutely must be paramount. Rehabilitation, if and where possible, is the next priority, which includes meaningful support in the host community to the maximum extent possible.

New York reduced crime drastically, many years ago, by treating even minor crimes seriously. That discouraged many minor offenders from escalating to bigger crimes. They quickly understood that throwing a stone through a window would result in arrest, a cell overnight, a trial, and an appropriate sentence rather than just a stern talking-to and immediate release following a promise to behave.

Failure to effectively discourage/deter is unacceptable - it helps nobody, especially the offenders, who merely, correctly, and rapidly learn that they can get away with almost anything, often until somebody is seriously hurt or killed.

The carrot (and carrots are infinitely preferable if and when they work) to that stick is meaningful provision of work-related training and job-finding assistance.

Band leaders - too-often corrupt and abusive towards their own people - need to be exposed and held to account as part of that process. I would, if able, eliminate payments to bands and, instead, provide payments to individual adults. Band leaders could then apply taxes to their members to support necessary programmes. Ordinary members would then see how much is being taken from them, and would have more interest in controlling excesses (such as the legendary multi-million-dollar off-reserve Chief's house, if such actually exist).

Kind of like democracy.

I have a long-time indigenous friend who lives off of, but works on, a small reserve, and hear regular tales of the favouritism and outright nepotism and other abuses and problems that abound. There are no apparent off-reserve problems as far as I know, like the reserve at the centre of this conflict.

This is not an indigenous problem. many people of any race or ethnicity, when provided with the bare necessities of life and no incentive to do better, such as many welfare recipients. Payments should not be clawed back dollar-for-dollar for money earned from employment, either, as there is no incentive to work if one ends up with the same amount of money.

People who work have much more self-esteem than those who do not, have more regard for the things that they can buy with earned income, more respect for the rights and property of others, and much less need to relieve their boredom by drinking heavily and harassing farmers or other productive people.

People need hope for better futures, preferably via their own efforts but with assistance when needed. The opposite is despair.

:goodpost:
Well said. My thoughts exactly.
 
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