Politics in 2018

[Jarnhamar]

I agree with Altair here: leaving soldiers behind is not good leadership, in my opinion. Apparently, neither is leaving Marines:
Going through Inf School, I remember more than once that we carried the rifles and packs of exhausted course mates, after a few days of stumbling through the swamps of Gagetown. Sometimes we did it on our own, sometimes the DS told us to. The point drilled into us was that nobody gets left behind, because that doesn't help the team, either.

I get QV's point about a common standard, but it has to be applied with common sense and sometimes some compassion. That could easily be "you" falling behind.

But the 13KM BFT is an individual test. If someone essentially has to be motivated (be it jacking up or happy thoughts) for 13 kilometers what happens when the soldier has to perform to the standard they just "passed" and people aren't around or able to push them?

Get what you're both saying but there is a difference, IMO, between fitness standards and something like a platoon on a forced march with heavy weapons etc..
I think we see some shitty MCpls and 2LTs because course mates carry them, in various ways, through courses.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I'm not a lawyer.

My example was decided by the Supreme Court of Canada ( Docket #31171 ).
https://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/info/dock-regi-eng.aspx?cas=31171

The SCC offered no opinion of their own and denied the plaintiff's leave to appeal the 2-1 decision of the BCCA, which had earlier set aside a trial judge's order made in judicial review proceedings relating to a decision of the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal. The main issue was one of symmetry between employers based on the ultimate source of funding for the paycheque (City of Vancouver), which the BCHRT ruled to be of no consequence to the matter.  An employer is an employer, regardless of source of funding for employment. This makes sense, for example look at the payment of nurses in nursing homes and hospitals. They are usually much different.

In contradistinction, Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Morneau appear to be espousing a policy that all departments of the federal government are ultimately a single employer, which is probably correct assuming that there is only one pension plan, one pay scale, one benefit plan, one collective agreement, one common standard of employment etc. etc. But alas, that assumption is incorrect.  They have to do better.

 

[mariomike]

Your example is no different than male janitors at ABC Co being paid more than female janitors at XYZ Co.

An employer is an employer, regardless of source of funding for employment.

I was not offering a legal opinion, as I am not a lawyer.

My reply was to this question,

Are there actual jobs in Canada where women are getting paid less than men for doing the same job?

The question was about jobs. Not employers.

In this case, it was argued that dispatching police and fire, in / for the same city ( Vancouver ), were similar jobs.

 

[Cloud Cover]

You pointed to a case that was ostensibly about jobs, in fact there was actually common ground that the jobs were comparable and the wages were not. The main issue of whether one employer could pay less than the other employer for highly comparable work did not turn on gender. The process never got that far because the City was able to establish they were not the single employer and that the City, and the two departments were all separate employers in their own right. The fact that one employer apparently valuated the work of dispatchers at a much higher level than the other employer suggests a problem perhaps rooted in something other than gender discrimination.

 

[mariomike]

You pointed to a case that was ostensibly about jobs, in fact there was actually common ground that the jobs were comparable and the wages were not.

My reply was to this question,

Are there actual jobs in Canada where women are getting paid less than men for doing the same job?

"In provincial jurisdictions, employers must give men and women equal pay for similar or
substantially similar work. In the federal jurisdiction, employers must give equal pay for work of
equal value."
http://www.mccarthy.ca/pubs/2006_Labour_Conference_Materials.pdf

As this was a municipal jurisdiction,

"The latter group was employed by the City of Vancouver while the former group was employed by the Vancouver Police Board. The Tribunal and ultimately the Court of Appeal agreed they were separate employers even though the City of Vancouver had final responsibility to pay for the employees of the Police Board."

This was Vancouver. The situation in Toronto was virtually identical. So, it was watched closely as the case went to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Interestingly, after 1998, Paramedic and Fire dispatchers could transfer between each others Communications Divisions.
But, not with ( the lower paying ) City Police Communications.

 

[Underway]

Overall the budget was kinda meh.  The money thrown at gender issues is really not that much despite their branding.  They actually got grudging respect from the Canadian taxpayers federation from not increasing spending to GDP ratio and actually shrinking it to Harper levels (13-14% IRRC), though the CTF were not happy about the deficit in general.  The money given to these "gender" programs is not budgeted to increase at all.  So spending will actually shrink.  This will put the gov't in a position to potentially go into an election year with that potential to come close to balancing the budget.  Of course if they spend it all on pharmacare then that just blows up. 

Gender analysis should be done for all gov't programs/contracts.  I'm surprised it took them so long to implement this.  Even the IMF does this.  It's pretty common in governments and international organizations.  It of course all depends on how its applied. Applying gender standards that are too rigorous to contracts over $1 million will shut out a lot of defence contractors and engineering firms.

Overall though nothing really changed from the last budget to this one except the money going to infrastructure that couldn't be spent goes to the "Liberal client cults".

If the federal gov't wants to really get serious about gender pay gap then they have to implement a serious and expensive gov't daycare plan.  The largest differences in pay come from missing work for children as women are the primary caregivers most of the time.  This is very clear in the research and in the results from places like Quebec and Sweeden who have implemented these policies.

Overall I originally hated the budget but then after looking at the numbers it really didn't change anything from last years.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Ralph Goodale being hammered by the Press about the Justin Bourne Identity crisis.

op:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/video?clipId=1337949

 

[Rifleman62]

Never leave a person behind, yes, but the person always caries their own personal wpn.

 

[George Wallace]

TRANSPARENCY

When the Trudeau Government came into power, they did away with all the legislation on Transparency that the Harper Government had brought in.  Now we see the Liberals doing this:

According to the report by Elizabeth Thompson, “Confidential information from Canadian taxpayers could soon be shared with police and authorities in three dozen countries around the world, under measures included in Finance Minister Bill Morneau’s latest budget. In an inconspicuous section tucked into a small 78-page annex to the budget, the government says it wants to give police and tax authorities new powers to fight tax evasion and advance international investigations into serious crimes, ranging from drug trafficking and money laundering to terrorism.”

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tax-evasion-privacy-crime-1.4554901

OK JUSTIN!  Which way do you want it?  Transparency or NO Transparency?

 

[Altair]

Never leave a person behind, yes, but the person always caries their own personal wpn.

100 percent. They can carry their own kit as well.

I believe these things are about the mental overcoming the physical.  If I can help someone mentally they will do the physical.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>I don't think trying to help women equates to keeping men down.

Unless this government has discovered a process for ensuring all policy changes are Pareto improvements, some people will be worse off so that others can be better off.

Two people with the same status and performance should be paid at the same rates.  But if you told me one was a uniformed police officer and the other a civilian, I would not object if the uniformed officer was subject to more liabilities of employment - reassignable to duties the civilian is not - and paid more therefore.

And since the usual mistake has been made on the sub-topic of "women in STEM" - not understanding that as women have more choices about what to do, fewer choose STEM fields - I lack faith in the initiatives of the federal government, and the provincial government here in BC.

 

[FJAG]

:cheers:

 

[Altair]

:cheers:

Political cartoons thread?

 

[pbi]

100 percent. They can carry their own kit as well.

I believe these things are about the mental overcoming the physical.  If I can help someone mentally they will do the physical.

Jarnhamar made a good point about a distinction between a fitness test and other strenuous physical activities: it leads to a question.

If you must be able to carry your full load during a BFT, or you aren't meeting the standard required for real operations, then why might it be acceptable during real ops, or during training for ops, that you carry buddy's ruck for a while, instead of leaving him to straggle and eventually fall out?

I'm asking a question, not making a rhetorical statement.

 

[Altair]

Jarnhamar made a good point about a distinction between a fitness test and other strenuous physical activities: it leads to a question.

If you must be able to carry your full load during a BFT, or you aren't meeting the standard required for real operations, then why might it be acceptable during real ops, or during training for ops, that you carry buddy's ruck for a while, instead of leaving him to straggle and eventually fall out?

I'm asking a question, not making a rhetorical statement.

A good question.

A soldier needs to be able to meet the physical requirements to be in the army. A simple concept.

Because once a soldier has passed the physical requirements, then during training or a real op they can be aided, and more importantly, be the one aiding others. A soldier who cannot meet the physical requirements will always need someone to carry their kit, while a soldier who meets the physical requirements may only occasionally need assistance, or could be the one aiding others.

 

[FSTO]

So getting back to politics....

I have never seen Ralph Goodale unable to out-talk the question asked of him. He must be furious that he has been put in this position.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/goodale-grilled-about-atwal-affair-on-parliament-hill-1.3824648

This lack of message management shown by the PMO is becoming the enduring legacy of the Trudeau government.

 

[George Wallace]

Because once a soldier has passed the physical requirements, then during training or a real op they can be aided, and more importantly, be the one aiding others. A soldier who cannot meet the physical requirements will always need someone to carry their kit, while a soldier who meets the physical requirements may only occasionally need assistance, or could be the one aiding others.

That is probably the better way of putting it.

 

[George Wallace]

So getting back to politics....

I have never seen Ralph Goodale unable to out-talk the question asked of him. He must be furious that he has been put in this position.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/goodale-grilled-about-atwal-affair-on-parliament-hill-1.3824648

This lack of message management shown by the PMO is becoming the enduring legacy of the Trudeau government.

This is turning out to be quite the fiasco.  I have a suspicion that the Civil Servant in question has very little actual experience in Security and Intelligence and has done the lateral transfers up the Public Service ladder to arrive in his position.  His 'speculation' and the way that the Trudeau Government has been shifting the blame away from the PM in multiple directions is turning this into a disgraceful insight into the way Trudeau's PMO is running things.

 

[Remius]

This is turning out to be quite the fiasco.  I have a suspicion that the Civil Servant in question has very little actual experience in Security and Intelligence and has done the lateral transfers up the Public Service ladder to arrive in his position.  His 'speculation' and the way that the Trudeau Government has been shifting the blame away from the PM in multiple directions is turning this into a disgraceful insight into the way Trudeau's PMO is running things.

The civil servant in question was actually Daniel Jean, the PM's NSA. Not some middle guy.

Which raises even more questions about the PMO as this sort of thing is incredibly odd.  There must have been a lot of political pressure on M. Jean to do this.

If the conspiracy theory is to be believed then why would an MP take the blame and if the MP is at fault then why the conspiracy theory about rogue agents?  Either way they all look like buffoons.  And in trying failing to do damage control they are further pissing off India.

Glad we aren't focused on costumes this time...

 

[George Wallace]

The civil servant in question was actually Daniel Jean, the PM's NSA. Not some middle guy.

Being the PM's NSA doesn't exactly have to mean that he has the credentials to actually be such an advisor.  He is filling the job as an appointment.