Wonderbread said:
So you're saying that gas masks are used by innocent protesters to protect themselves from the illegal actions of the police?
No, I am saying when facing the possibility that a protest may get tear gassed for whatever reason, medics carry first aid and prevention supplies to handle with complications from tear gas. This includes water, vinegar, napkins and such to soak up the vinegar, some clothes, and disposable medical filter masks. These are distributed to all those that seem unprepared, whether they are a protester or bystander. If anyone wearing gas masks, then they brought it themselves.
PMedMoe said:
mellian, I don't think anyone here is intending to say that protests and riots are the same thing. I think the general feeling is that protests have the potential to become violent.
I also don't think that all protest groups (such as the ones you have been involved with) have the intention of holding a violent protest, but you'd have to be quite naive to believe that a protest (any protest, no matter how nonviolent they say they are) holds an attraction to those who hope it involves rioting/looting, etc.
You'd be quite naive to believe that most protest organizers are not aware of that, and have not tried to minimize that from happening. That is the point I am trying to make.
Lets take the protest group I was involved with. We have a set core of people of 10-15 people that started organizing for a protest a month or more in advance to a less of a week or even a less of a day of. We are volunteers and we all agree of the goal of having a safe and non-violent protest, and we proceed to organize to achieve that as much possible despite knowing there will be those who prefer more direct action or simply agitators, there for the fun of it.
Most we can do about them is contact relevant group we know locally and tell them of our plans, and ask them to keep them more direct methods separately. They have just as much right at protesting and being there, so we cannot stop them, we just can be ready for it and inform as many people as possible, including the police, of our peaceful plans. Then there is all the unknowns within the city and those from other cities or even countries we have no way to account for. Most we can is organize a rest area for food, and one large group meeting nights before and during the protest for those interested in the organized plan of a peaceful protest. We have no authourity over all the people that will be attending and participating the protests, we can just influence them. If they do not listen and go against us, not much we can do about it.
Despite planning a peaceful and non-violent protest, we are not naive that shit will not hit the fan despite what we do to discourage it from happening. So we setup legal clinics for anyone that gets arrested in relation to the protest, and their job to keep track of those arrested, get their names, and do whatever we can to get them out of jail. Then we have medics carry first aid supplies plus extra to handle 'non-lethal' methods of the police as well injuries due to idiocy of people throwing rocks and other stuff. Then we have marshals to enact the plans and help coordinate large amount of people into marches and demonstrations on set, as well do what we can to keep them safe. If people go out of line, causing trouble within or near the march/demonstration, most we can shout them that is not the plan and keep the rest together, as we have no authourity over them nor part of our core group and usually we do not know them anyway.
Last thing we need is have large crowd fracture and fight among themselves, losing all influence and all cohesion, resulting in chaos and huge mess that may lead to a riot with a lot of people getting hurt. Needs of the peaceful many outweighs the needs of a few agitators. Usually they stop and get back with the main group seeing no one is supporting them in their actions, but that is not always the case and again, not much we can do about it.
We have at least one person or more designated as police liaisons, and we let the police aware of that, so we can maintain some kind of communication. Many of us know from experience that the police are prone to be more agitated and aggressive without someone to speak to. Also why we tell them of our plans day or so or more before the protest, usually some time after we acquire some information as to where their barriers and no-go areas will be. We sometimes have designated back up liaisons in case the police decide to arrest our first one or two for whatever reason.
Then we have to prepare for what the police may or may not do, and the affects of their presence upon the protest. This includes, as much as we can, be prepared for intimidation tactics, snatch teams, isolation tactics, tear gas, dogs, etc. It would be irresponsible of us to ignore this possibility, no matter our goals of a peaceful protest.
I can't say much about elsewhere, but in Ottawa, doing what we can to keep the peace has prevented from protests degenerating into riots, no matter the obstacles and challenges. This also influence the police in how they handle a protest despite their own bias, as some of them realize how benefit it is to have an organized group with aims of peaceful protest, and them focusing more on groups they consider problematic.
Can't lead a large crowd like an hierarchical unit, can only influence. Organizers and marshals are only human and minority in comparison to the rest, and doing this without any particular training. To call them naive for supposedly being unaware of reality, to call themselves agitators for simply being prepared or not have some CO like authourity and accountability over a large amount of people only makes one naive themselves.
In line with the original post here, I think people were trying to say, yes, it's okay to protest, however, when the feces hit the fan, take into consideration, you may be arrested for something else and the CF will most certainly not be happy about your involvement, no matter how peaceful you claim your protest to be.
Sometimes, being in the wrong place at the wrong time is avoidable.
I know, but people are also showing their contempt, joyful fantasies of bashing protesters' heads, and equating protests to riots. I am simply speaking out of my own past experiences in response in attempt to educate. I am presently not involved with these groups for couple of years now since moving, and I do not plan to be involved again there or anywhere else, especially if I am going to be in the CF...as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
