RCMP to Order 14 New Helos

[CBH99]

Some photos taken early this morning out at Kingston's Norman Rogers Airport. I had a video of the BH taking off, but to large for the server.

Great pics!

And I still maintain, they did a great job on the paint

 

[CBH99]

Parliament should start by actually letting the CAF improve commonality in its helo fleet. At least these other agencies don't end up having to train their support workforce. They can rely on contracted maintenance.

Improve commonality sounds good, and it is - but what airframes do we currently have that duplicate the capabilities of another?

The Griffons, Chinooks, Cormorants, and Cyclones all perform very different roles. I don't know what 2 airframes could realistically be consolidated into 1...




(Remember, it was the government's desire to improve CAF helo fleet commonality that led us to having the Griffon in the first place - or so I've heard)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Merlin's and Cormorants can be combined, probably half the Griffons replaced by cargo version of the AgustaWestland AW101.

Chinooks remain and perhaps increased in numbers slowly, in perhaps 5 years from now.

I was supportive of buying Blackhawks to replace the remaining Griffons, but I think we will wait 5 years as well.

Buy 6-12x Bell 429's (built in Canada) paint them gray and owned by TC who supplies aircraft, pilot and mechanic to the AOPS as required.

 

[Alberta Bound]

Three things on RCMP procurement:

• Members have been waiting on new pistols and blue shirts among othe things, for 10 years (ish). Some indecision by senior management and lots of issues with PW&PC.
• Federal Policing have been asking for a platform like the BHs for a few years. Issues with senior mgmt and political will held it up. Which is what has held Fed Pol back from lots of good policing.
• The decision to approve the BH leases was due to present pressures.

Like Chinooks and M777s, kit and clothing can be obtained in record time when there is political will.

 

[OldSolduer]

Like Chinooks and M777s, kit and clothing can be obtained in record time when there is political will.

100 % correct. Focus on what the needs are and less on elections.

 

[RangerRay]

Three things on RCMP procurement:

• Members have been waiting on new pistols and blue shirts among othe things, for 10 years (ish). Some indecision by senior management and lots of issues with PW&PC.
• Federal Policing have been asking for a platform like the BHs for a few years. Issues with senior mgmt and political will held it up. Which is what has held Fed Pol back from lots of good policing.
• The decision to approve the BH leases was due to present pressures.

Like Chinooks and M777s, kit and clothing can be obtained in record time when there is political will.

Meanwhile, provincial and municipal forces don’t appear to be as hamstrung in procuring equipment as the feds…

 

[DBNSG]

Improve commonality sounds good, and it is - but what airframes do we currently have that duplicate the capabilities of another?

The Griffons, Chinooks, Cormorants, and Cyclones all perform very different roles. I don't know what 2 airframes could realistically be consolidated into 1...




(Remember, it was the government's desire to improve CAF helo fleet commonality that led us to having the Griffon in the first place - or so I've heard)

Keep the Chinooks, Retire the Cyclones, Buy 60 more AW 101's in Maritime configuration ( 35) Tactical Lift (25) and then buy 60
H-145 's in a Base Flight (12) and armed Recce/SOF (48).

 

[RedFive]

Just doesn't feel that way sometimes...ya know?

Have you seen our pistol procurement?

Meanwhile, provincial and municipal forces don’t appear to be as hamstrung in procuring equipment as the feds…

The common denominator here is Public Service and Procurement Canada. If I was king for a day I'd Elon the f*** out of them.

 

[dapaterson]

Have you seen our pistol procurement?

The common denominator here is Public Service and Procurement Canada. If I was king for a day I'd Elon the f*** out of them.

While there are problems with PSPC, many procurement problems start with poorly defined requirements. That's long before contracting occurs.

 

[OldSolduer]

Have you seen our pistol procurement?

The common denominator here is Public Service and Procurement Canada. If I was king for a day I'd Elon the f*** out of them.

But our free dental!!!!

It seems we have an issue with bureaucratic interference.

 

[Maxman1]

Merlin's and Cormorants can be combined, probably half the Griffons replaced by cargo version of the AgustaWestland AW101.

Chinooks remain and perhaps increased in numbers slowly, in perhaps 5 years from now.

I was supportive of buying Blackhawks to replace the remaining Griffons, but I think we will wait 5 years as well.

Buy 6-12x Bell 429's (built in Canada) paint them gray and owned by TC who supplies aircraft, pilot and mechanic to the AOPS as required.

Keep the Chinooks, Retire the Cyclones, Buy 60 more AW 101's in Maritime configuration ( 35) Tactical Lift (25) and then buy 60
H-145 's in a Base Flight (12) and armed Recce/SOF (48).

And AW149s to replace the Griffons. And maybe another 15 AW101s in either 612 or 615 SAR configuration to boost the Cormorant fleet.

 

[KevinB]

And AW149s to replace the Griffons. And maybe another 15 AW101s in either 612 or 615 SAR configuration to boost the Cormorant fleet.

We are retiring a number of Combat Aviation Brigades. As such you could get a fantastic deal on some slightly used Blackhawks.

While I get the Canadian angst about America, it’s the best UH out there.

 

[Maxman1]

We are retiring a number of Combat Aviation Brigades. As such you could get a fantastic deal on some slightly used Blackhawks.

While I get the Canadian angst about America, it’s the best UH out there.

The AW149 has almost double the range and troop capacity. And Sikorsky declined to bid in the British New Medium Helicopter project.

Airbus Helicopters and Sikorsky walk away from UK NMH contest at 11th hour

Leonardo Helicopters is the sole remaining bidder for the UK's ongoing New Medium Helicopter (NMH) contest after rivals Airbus Helicopters and Sikorsky confirmed they were withdrawing from the competition.

www.flightglobal.com

 

[KevinB]

The AW149 has almost double the range and troop capacity. And Sikorsky declined to bid in the British New Medium Helicopter project.

Airbus Helicopters and Sikorsky walk away from UK NMH contest at 11th hour

Leonardo Helicopters is the sole remaining bidder for the UK's ongoing New Medium Helicopter (NMH) contest after rivals Airbus Helicopters and Sikorsky confirmed they were withdrawing from the competition.

www.flightglobal.com

Realistically as soon as you add crew chiefs for Door guns - you end up with 1 more GIB than the Blackhawk.
My point on Blackhawks was given the downsizing of the Aviation Brigades down here, there will be some low blade hour ones available at a discount.

 

[suffolkowner]

And AW149s to replace the Griffons. And maybe another 15 AW101s in either 612 or 615 SAR configuration to boost the Cormorant fleet.

i think doubling our SAR assets is a non starter. it was enough work to get to the 16

 

[dapaterson]

Realistically as soon as you add crew chiefs for Door guns - you end up with 1 more GIB than the Blackhawk.
My point on Blackhawks was given the downsizing of the Aviation Brigades down here, there will be some low blade hour ones available at a discount.

We don't buy used if it's nearly new.

We bought USCG Hercs that were retired for hours to recycle their wing boxes on our heavy hour H Hercs.

 

[lenaitch]

Meanwhile, provincial and municipal forces don’t appear to be as hamstrung in procuring equipment as the feds…

I dealt with Ontario's Treasury Board (former Management Board) on a few large-dollar projects and while they weren't a fun bunch to deal with and are extremely risk-averse, they were never obstructionist like I get the sense the federal counterpart is. We didn't have a version of the current Ministry of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement back then; Ontario Shared Services Bureau was in its infancy and was still in the process of screwing up everybody's computer needs.

While a proposal still has to 'dot the Is and cross the Ts', there is still an acknowledgement that 'Cabinet/the Premier said make it so'.

 

[Czech_pivo]

i think doubling our SAR assets is a non starter. it was enough work to get to the 16

But if we start to shift assets to the Arctic won't there be a legitimate reason to need more SAR?

 

[suffolkowner]

But if we start to shift assets to the Arctic won't there be a legitimate reason to need more SAR?

i think we are already shirking out obligations for Arctic SAR. Should we have/do more? Sure. I'll be surprised if we do
an obvious additional base doesnt really suggest itself

 

[Czech_pivo]

i think we are already shirking out obligations for Arctic SAR. Should we have/do more? Sure. I'll be surprised if we do
an obvious additional base doesnt really suggest itself

View attachment 91995

Any reason why all of them are within 100+/- km's of the US border? Strictly because that is where the population is?

Is Winnipeg responsible for the western end of the Great Lakes?

I think that the area around the GL is a bit misleading as I'm aware that we rely on the US to do similar duties on our side of the border. Some boater is trouble in Lake St Clair certainly isn't going to be alive if they wait for Trenton to come of the rescue, its Selfridges ANB that's going to save them. I'd to get a sense of how many times the US has to cross border in the GL area to meet our SAR calls on a yearly basis. A discussion might be needed to address this going forward based on the current situation.

I think a case for a station to be in NFLD look's to be pretty strong.

Also, based on the current time to be on station that is needed for a SAR to occur in the north, have to ask the question how many times a call hasn't gone out because of this and the need has been meet by other means.