Reconstitution

[Eaglelord17]

You don’t need to redo the CFAT upon rejoining.

They never did it in the first place, they joined pre-CFAT

 

[CBH99]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this but they've apparently quietly gone about doing away with the CFAT.

Now you don't need aptitude to be in the Military. Yay!

Edmonton Police Service is quietly looking into the possibility of eliminating recruits to pass a basic physical fitness test prior to commencing their recruit training... (Ironic since EPS was known for years for their incredibly high fitness standards)

It sounded like a terrible idea, and I voiced my initial reaction during an informal 'town hall' style meeting hosted by Chief Dale McFee.

But his explanation of why the idea might have some merit was practical, and whether or not it affects the quality of the final product is what the recruiting section will be monitoring, IF this idea manifests on the trial basis being discussed.

(The idea is to no longer have recruits do a fitness test during the recruiting process or as a screener for the recruiting process - but rather have the recruits be required to pass those same fitness standards by the end of recruit training. The rationale is that the recruits will still require the same fitness level once they hit the streets, but by requiring the fitness standards be met by the end of the classroom portion of recruit training it will allow more (in theory) some people to proceed in the process where they otherwise couldn't have without lowering the fitness standard of the final product)


...


I imagine the proposal of having people do their CFAT while at CFLRS has the same driving force behind it - get more people in uniform by removing as many bottlenecks as possible, and get them started in the training pipeline as quickly as possible. I can't imagine the CAF would get rid of the CFAT altogether, but plenty has happened that I never thought possible...

They would need to keep some form of aptitude test on the front end in the case of the Reserve Force, I'd reckon?

 

[dimsum]

Edmonton Police Service is quietly looking into the possibility of eliminating recruits to pass a basic physical fitness test prior to commencing their recruit training... (Ironic since EPS was known for years for their incredibly high fitness standards)

It sounded like a terrible idea, and I voiced my initial reaction during an informal 'town hall' style meeting hosted by Chief Dale McFee.

But his explanation of why the idea might have some merit was practical, and whether or not it affects the quality of the final product is what the recruiting section will be monitoring, IF this idea manifests on the trial basis being discussed.

(The idea is to no longer have recruits do a fitness test during the recruiting process or as a screener for the recruiting process - but rather have the recruits be required to pass those same fitness standards by the end of recruit training. The rationale is that the recruits will still require the same fitness level once they hit the streets, but by requiring the fitness standards be met by the end of the classroom portion of recruit training it will allow more (in theory) some people to proceed in the process where they otherwise couldn't have without lowering the fitness standard of the final product)


...


I imagine the proposal of having people do their CFAT while at CFLRS has the same driving force behind it - get more people in uniform by removing as many bottlenecks as possible, and get them started in the training pipeline as quickly as possible. I can't imagine the CAF would get rid of the CFAT altogether, but plenty has happened that I never thought possible...

They would need to keep some form of aptitude test on the front end in the case of the Reserve Force, I'd reckon?

I’d suggest that writing the CFAT in CFLRS means they’re not doing away with it altogether.

 

[CBH99]

I’d suggest that writing the CFAT in CFLRS means they’re not doing away with it altogether.

Agreed. I had read above the suggestion it may be done away with altogether, I think my fingers were faster than my thoughts as I was still processing the random possibilities of such a scenario.

 

[CBH99]

If the Air Cadet League is to believed, the programme's effect in "promoting and encouraging the nation’s youth to develop and maintain an interest in aviation, leadership and citizenship" is not insignificant.

History - Air Cadet League of Canada

The Early Days – 1940’s To understand why and how the Air Cadet League of Canada came into being, it …Read More »

aircadetleague.com

I was an Air Cadet from (I think) when I was 13 years old until I was 16 years old (when I joined the Primary Reserve) and I had some awesome experiences in Cadets.

To be clear - I am NOT knocking Cadets AT ALL

It's a great program that can and does do a great deal for the youth who get involved. Much like the military, you get as much out of it as you put into it. (Even in the 3 years I was in, I got to fly around in the back of a Griffon at super low level, go flying in gliders a few times, did a week long exchange with a squadron from the Maritimes, met PM Chretien, etc)

They do a lot to facilitate an interest in flying, and they do promote military service very well. I was just saying that if one joins Cadets in the hopes they'll come out of it with a pilots license, the odds of that happening are more limited than some may realize when they join. (I got my Student Pilot Permit, aka NOT my license, while in Air Cadets & that endeavor was financed by Mom & Dad.)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Edmonton Police Service is quietly looking into the possibility of eliminating recruits to pass a basic physical fitness test prior to commencing their recruit training... (Ironic since EPS was known for years for their incredibly high fitness standards)

It sounded like a terrible idea, and I voiced my initial reaction during an informal 'town hall' style meeting hosted by Chief Dale McFee.

But his explanation of why the idea might have some merit was practical, and whether or not it affects the quality of the final product is what the recruiting section will be monitoring, IF this idea manifests on the trial basis being discussed.

(The idea is to no longer have recruits do a fitness test during the recruiting process or as a screener for the recruiting process - but rather have the recruits be required to pass those same fitness standards by the end of recruit training. The rationale is that the recruits will still require the same fitness level once they hit the streets, but by requiring the fitness standards be met by the end of the classroom portion of recruit training it will allow more (in theory) some people to proceed in the process where they otherwise couldn't have without lowering the fitness standard of the final product)


...


I imagine the proposal of having people do their CFAT while at CFLRS has the same driving force behind it - get more people in uniform by removing as many bottlenecks as possible, and get them started in the training pipeline as quickly as possible. I can't imagine the CAF would get rid of the CFAT altogether, but plenty has happened that I never thought possible...

They would need to keep some form of aptitude test on the front end in the case of the Reserve Force, I'd reckon?

A basic fitness test to show where they are at and that they could meet the final one with some work would be useful.

 

[Furniture]

A basic fitness test to show where they are at and that they could meet the final one with some work would be useful.

True, but on the other hand, it is yet one more barrier placed in from of a potential recruit.

Things like that worked when they had far more suitable applicants than positions, but now that there are more positions than suitable applicants, organizations need to rethink their barriers to entry.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

True, but on the other hand, it is yet one more barrier placed in from of a potential recruit.

Things like that worked when they had far more suitable applicants than positions, but now that there are more positions than suitable applicants, organizations need to rethink their barriers to entry.

Generally I agree with you. The initial fitness standard can be fairly low and done anywhere. This gives you a baseline and then following a basic chart they can be given a readout that shows where they need to improve to meet the actual CAF Standard. So you might reject a small number, who likely are in very poor shape. but the rest now have a fitness learning plan they can work on.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Generally I agree with you. The initial fitness standard can be fairly low and done anywhere. This gives you a baseline and then following a basic chart they can be given a readout that shows where they need to improve to meet the actual CAF Standard. So you might reject a small number, who likely are in very poor shape. but the rest now have a fitness learning plan they can work on.

Or figure out how recruiting can better target kids who play sports.

There are millions of them so it shouldn't be too hard, should it?

 

[Harris]

I know how to fix the recruiting issues:

1. Have kit that works
2. Have enough kit for all plus some spare for breakage/surge requirements
3. Have a Government that actually messages through deeds that they give two shits about our National Defence
4. Ditto for our citizenry
5. Apply standards evenly across the board
6. Apply individual responsibility for misdeeds and not "group punishment"
7. Have a CoC that leads by example
8. Target recruiting towards groups that might actually want to be part of the Military

You get the picture. Until 3 and 4 happen best of luck seeing things change. (Or WWIII might effect change I guess)

 

[OldSolduer]

I know how to fix the recruiting issues:

1. Have kit that works
2. Have enough kit for all plus some spare for breakage/surge requirements
3. Have a Government that actually messages through deeds that they give two shits about our National Defence
4. Ditto for our citizenry
5. Apply standards evenly across the board
6. Apply individual responsibility for misdeeds and not "group punishment"
7. Have a CoC that leads by example
8. Target recruiting towards groups that might actually want to be part of the Military

You get the picture. Until 3 and 4 happen best of luck seeing things change. (Or WWIII might effect change I guess)

Add challenging and realistic training

 

[quadrapiper]

Or figure out how recruiting can better target kids who play sports.

There are millions of them so it shouldn't be too hard, should it?

Really seems an under-addressed group. Not to be all Imperial, but start with rugby and build out from there; football (round kind) next. Hockey's only worth bothering with once they've convinced themselves they won't be making millions getting/causing concussions in the NHL. Football (hand-egg) might only be worth the time in certain areas, and AFAIK doesn't seem to encourage women's/co-ed teams to the same degree as the rest (which is really saying something...).

 

[daftandbarmy]

Really seems an under-addressed group. Not to be all Imperial, but start with rugby and build out from there; football (round kind) next. Hockey's only worth bothering with once they've convinced themselves they won't be making millions getting/causing concussions in the NHL. Football (hand-egg) might only be worth the time in certain areas, and AFAIK doesn't seem to encourage women's/co-ed teams to the same degree as the rest (which is really saying something...).

Last time I checked, a few hours ago, the people who play kids' sports is pretty 'diverse' too.

But what do I know... stoopid retired guy

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Or figure out how recruiting can better target kids who play sports.

There are millions of them so it shouldn't be too hard, should it?

Rugby is actually great training for section attacks. Rucks are a perfect way to get good at pepper podding.

The fact boxing isn't an accepted sport in the CAF tells you all you need to know.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The legitimate objective of a pre-training fitness test is to ensure candidates are fit enough to undertake the training.

In many fields, the activity and stress compressed into a training period requires higher levels of fitness than the actual job. It'd be foolish to pretend that the job is more demanding than training if this is not the case. And if a certain fitness is required on day 1 of year 1, it's probably required - and should be tested - through successive years until the incumbent moves into a position no longer requiring that level of fitness. (In select cases, the fitness required might be greater.)

If an agency claims the job fitness only needs to be measured once, "bullsh!t" is an appropriate response.

 

[foresterab]

I know how to fix the recruiting issues:

1. Have kit that works
2. Have enough kit for all plus some spare for breakage/surge requirements
3. Have a Government that actually messages through deeds that they give two shits about our National Defence
4. Ditto for our citizenry
5. Apply standards evenly across the board
6. Apply individual responsibility for misdeeds and not "group punishment"
7. Have a CoC that leads by example
8. Target recruiting towards groups that might actually want to be part of the Military

You get the picture. Until 3 and 4 happen best of luck seeing things change. (Or WWIII might effect change I guess)

add in sufficient quarters for families and troops so that there can be consistent cost of living for CAF members regardless of where posted.

 

[CBH99]

add in sufficient quarters for families and troops so that there can be consistent cost of living for CAF members regardless of where posted.

This would not only improve the quality of life for military members, but I imagine it would help with attrition beyond anything else.

If members knew that to expect as a cost of living regardless of where posted, and had the option to live in fairly modern, well taken care of housing in family friendly neighborhoods or modern apartments if single (ideally less than average market pricing) that would be a huge stress & constant worry we could take off the shoulders of members.

It would also help ease that pit in the stomach feeling one gets when learning they'll be posted out to somewhere new.


...


I vaguely recall the CFHA being given a chunk of money to build a fair amount of new military housing across the board a few years back, but haven't heard anything at all about any new housing actually being built.

Does anybody know the current status of any projects related to building new military housing?

 

[dapaterson]

The latest Defence Policy Update includes plans and funding for military housing.

 

[mariomike]

I know how to fix the recruiting issues:

I do not, as I was never a recruiting professional.

But, I once did a high school career day when I was benched with a WSIB injury.

Didn't know what to say, except - insert CAF - "make a vital contribution to your community country."

Maybe that was important to some. Maybe not. That was for them to decide.

But, if they join when they graduate, and hang in for the whole ride, there's a pension at the end of it.

It could be your first, and last, job. ( Career, profession, occupation, whatever one wishes to call it ).

Perhaps high school students are more concerned with short term than long term?

 

[captloadie]

While targeting kids who play sports may seem like a great idea to bring in fit individuals, you have to look at the chances of actually getting them interested. At the high school age, if the kids are still seriously into sports at the higher levels, then the CAF is competing against post secondary education opportunities that allows them to continue to play their sport, families in many cases that can afford to send their kids to post secondary to continue to play sports (be it college or university), or individuals who want to be able to continue playing on teams with their buddies as they get older. We would be selling them the same BS as old school recruiters who said join the Army if you are into camping and the outdoors.

Let's be honest, we should be targeting kids and recent graduates/drop outs who don't have any other options. Individuals who aren't tied to a large close knit family geographically locked in one place.

Maybe run an ad campaign that shows people on the street, others struggling at minimum wage jobs, with voice overs that say "Are you alone out there? Are looking to get ahead in life? If you think you don't have any other options, or are looking for an organization you can make life long friends and family, give the CAF a chance"