Reconstitution

[Remius]

Hi

While targeting kids who play sports may seem like a great idea to bring in fit individuals, you have to look at the chances of actually getting them interested. At the high school age, if the kids are still seriously into sports at the higher levels, then the CAF is competing against post secondary education opportunities that allows them to continue to play their sport, families in many cases that can afford to send their kids to post secondary to continue to play sports (be it college or university), or individuals who want to be able to continue playing on teams with their buddies as they get older. We would be selling them the same BS as old school recruiters who said join the Army if you are into camping and the outdoors.

Let's be honest, we should be targeting kids and recent graduates/drop outs who don't have any other options. Individuals who aren't tied to a large close knit family geographically locked in one place.

Maybe run an ad campaign that shows people on the street, others struggling at minimum wage jobs, with voice overs that say "Are you alone out there? Are looking to get ahead in life? If you think you don't have any other options, or are looking for an organization you can make life long friends and family, give the CAF a chance"

When I was a recruiter it was a waste of time trying to go after kids that played competitive sports. It was always a waste of time for the reasons you listed. But the brains at CFRG HQ thought those were great areas to recruit from…

 

[daftandbarmy]

While targeting kids who play sports may seem like a great idea to bring in fit individuals, you have to look at the chances of actually getting them interested. At the high school age, if the kids are still seriously into sports at the higher levels, then the CAF is competing against post secondary education opportunities that allows them to continue to play their sport, families in many cases that can afford to send their kids to post secondary to continue to play sports (be it college or university), or individuals who want to be able to continue playing on teams with their buddies as they get older. We would be selling them the same BS as old school recruiters who said join the Army if you are into camping and the outdoors.

Let's be honest, we should be targeting kids and recent graduates/drop outs who don't have any other options. Individuals who aren't tied to a large close knit family geographically locked in one place.

Maybe run an ad campaign that shows people on the street, others struggling at minimum wage jobs, with voice overs that say "Are you alone out there? Are looking to get ahead in life? If you think you don't have any other options, or are looking for an organization you can make life long friends and family, give the CAF a chance"

 

[Rudburg]

Hi

When I was a recruiter it was a waste of time trying to go after kids that played competitive sports. It was always a waste of time for the reasons you listed. But the brains at CFRG HQ thought those were great areas to recruit from…

Subjective observation, but they are also more likely to have sports-related injuries that run them into trouble with the RMO.

Play football? Great - fit, understand teamwork, etc.

Tore an ACL playing football? May not meet CEMS.

 

[Remius]

Subjective observation, but they are also more likely to have sports-related injuries that run them into trouble with the RMO.

Play football? Great - fit, understand teamwork, etc.

Tore an ACL playing football? May not meet CEMS.

Or at the very least extends the application process quite a bit getting letters and assessments…

 

[Navy_Pete]

Or at the very least extends the application process quite a bit getting letters and assessments…

Well, they seem to be doing that already for people with things like crippling social anxiety and other similar things that would have been disqualifiers before, so why not?

 

[PrairieFella]

Hi

When I was a recruiter it was a waste of time trying to go after kids that played competitive sports. It was always a waste of time for the reasons you listed. But the brains at CFRG HQ thought those were great areas to recruit from…

We should find the poorest 15 postal codes in the country and saturate then with recruiting personnel. My family was in a rough financial situation and I was working two jobs to save money for post-secondary before I joined the Reserves. Fast forward ten years and the life is amazing and I thank the Army for giving me the social and economic structure I desperately needed at the time. We should be selling the CAF as an instrument of social mobility and membership in a brotherhood/sisterhood that transcends creed, colour, sex, etc. That's how we get the youth today, especially since they've never been more lonely or aimless.

 

[stoker dave]

instrument of social mobility and membership in a brotherhood/sisterhood that transcends creed, colour, sex, etc.

I am with PF. I grew up poor and in a crappy family. I joined for the education, training, travel and adventure.

From my perspective, poor kids don't think about a pension in 30 years: their focus is much shorter term.

There may also be some correlation that kids from rougher backgrounds have the skills to cope with military life. I found basic training easier than living at home

What happened to 'be all you can be'?

 

[Brad Sallows]

The US forces have been an unofficial elevator for economic mobility for decades.

 

[captloadie]

I was in the same boat. I wanted out of where I was, and the ROTP scholarship was a way to do it. I had no appreciation for what a military career meant beyond the paid degree.

Fast forward 30 years, and my son is getting ready to graduate. He plays soccer at the elite level, and while he has a vague idea about what he wants to take at university, he will decide on where to go based on the school's soccer program, and how he can fit into it. He asked about RMC, but I had to be honest with him. Unless he has an interest in a particular part of the military, it probably wasn't his best option. The soccer team isn't competitive, sports could never be his primary focus there, and we have the financial means to send him to a school of his choice.

Now my neighbour's son? He graduates next year. He's relatively smart, but hates school. He's bored, so he's constantly in trouble and now couch surfing rather than living at home. His dad was a base brat, but never served himself. They probably have the financial means to pay for his post-secondary education, but he'll never have the grades to get accepted. He, in my opinion, would be worth targeting for the CAF, as it might turn his life around.

 

[Blackadder1916]

We should find the poorest 15 postal codes in the country and saturate then with recruiting personnel. . . .

Why do you think that Newfoundlanders enrolled in the numbers that they did? And they didn't have to saturate the province with recruiting pers. As one of the instructors on my TQ3 (a half century ago) would say "you're only here because the garbage cans are frozen over in the winter".

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/military-enlistment-atlantic-1.6394787

 

[KevinB]

Down here the Service Academy’s have football and Hockey teams at decently high levels of collegiate talent.

Besides for year the CF was a huge Hockey supporter. Not sure why one would discount them out of hand.
Not much CAF interest in football, but Rugby and Lacrosse should be good fits.

 

[daftandbarmy]

We should find the poorest 15 postal codes in the country and saturate then with recruiting personnel. My family was in a rough financial situation and I was working two jobs to save money for post-secondary before I joined the Reserves. Fast forward ten years and the life is amazing and I thank the Army for giving me the social and economic structure I desperately needed at the time. We should be selling the CAF as an instrument of social mobility and membership in a brotherhood/sisterhood that transcends creed, colour, sex, etc. That's how we get the youth today, especially since they've never been more lonely or aimless.

Nothing like preying on the most vulnerable kids to hit your recruiting targets because you're too lazy or ill equipped to do otherwise e.g.,

Marginalized students pay the price of military recruitment efforts​

Unlike most other developed nations, the U.S. allows military recruiters to actively work within its educational system. Recruiters visit thousands of high schools across the country annually, recruiting students who are still minors, setting up tables in cafeterias and hallways, during career fairs, and even at school sporting events. In many instances, they’re allowed to freely roam school grounds in search of students, or often sit with students eating alone in the cafeteria. Military recruiters will often spin elaborate yarns promising excitement, adventure, and being “all you can be” to entice young people.

In reality, military recruiters will often peddle false hope for honor and acclaim and make exaggerated promises of financial reward. This has been underscored by fluctuating enthusiasm for the military among youth. According to a 2020 poll conducted by the Department of Defense, 11% of respondents ages 16-24 said they were likely to serve in the military in the next few years. As a result, the U.S. military has ramped up its recruitment efforts, often resorting to deceptive tactics to prey on the naïveté and oftentimes desperation of many young people. Recruiters regularly sell the notion that in order to pay for college, learn valuable skills, or even serve their communities, joining the military is the right path.

Marginalized students pay the price of military recruitment efforts

With pandemic restrictions easing, military recruiters are returning to high school campuses while anti-recruitment efforts struggle

prismreports.org

 

[shiska]

..... Lacrosse should be good fits.

Funny you should mention that. I was at the Canada summer games for Lax and the CAF had a booth setup. That was my first exposure to anything military and I've been hooked ever since.

 

[dimsum]

The US forces have been an unofficial elevator for economic mobility for decades.

Oh, it’s been very official.

 

[mariomike]

From my perspective, poor kids don't think about a pension in 30 years: their focus is much shorter term.

Right.

From my perspective, middle-class kids might focus on a longer term.

 

[Furniture]

The legitimate objective of a pre-training fitness test is to ensure candidates are fit enough to undertake the training.

In many fields, the activity and stress compressed into a training period requires higher levels of fitness than the actual job. It'd be foolish to pretend that the job is more demanding than training if this is not the case. And if a certain fitness is required on day 1 of year 1, it's probably required - and should be tested - through successive years until the incumbent moves into a position no longer requiring that level of fitness. (In select cases, the fitness required might be greater.)

If an agency claims the job fitness only needs to be measured once, "bullsh!t" is an appropriate response.

The point isn't to recruit unfit people and get them up to speed, it's to remove a barrier to entry for people who otherwise would be a good fit.

To get into policing most places you need to find a gym that does the testing, schedule the testing, then pay for it, just to apply.

That made sense back when they had more suitable candidates that positions. These days, they don't have enough suitable candidates, because people don't want to jump through hoops just to apply to get in.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The point isn't to recruit unfit people and get them up to speed, it's to remove a barrier to entry for people who otherwise would be a good fit.

The Royal Marines developed a pretty good 'pre-fitness' program when it became apparent that they were losing alot of high potential recruits in recruit training because of fitness/ injury issues. It isn't a one time pass/fail test, you can try more than once, and there's some mentoring available. They also offer a 4 day 'acquaint' course where potential recruits get a chance to try out recruit training before committing.

Pre-Joining Fitness Assessment​

A step up from the regular pre-joining test.

The Pre-Joining Fitness Assessment (PJFA) event is an opportunity to meet with the Royal Marines InReach team and start preparing for the Commando Preparation Course (CPC) and Royal Marines training.

The InReach team is made up of serving Royal Marines who are at various stages of their careers. They have been loaned to the careers service to mentor and guide you in your preparation for a career in the Royal Marines. The team is available to answer any questions you may have about life in the Royal Marines and can offer valuable insights based on their own experiences.

The first step is to assess your current fitness level with the PJFA. You can attend as many PJFA events as you need to prepare yourself physically and mentally for Royal Marine training.

Royal Marine Commando | Pre-Joining Fitness Assessment

The Pre-Joining Fitness Assessment (PJFA) event is an opportunity to meet with the Royal Marines InReach team and start preparing for the Commando Preparation Course (CPC) and Royal Marines training.

www.royalnavy.mod.uk

 

[Furniture]

The Royal Marines developed a pretty good 'pre-fitness' program when it became apparent that they were losing alot of high potential recruits in recruit training because of fitness/ injury issues. It isn't a one time pass/fail test, you can try more than once, and there's some mentoring available. They also offer a 4 day 'acquaint' course where potential recruits get a chance to try out recruit training before committing.

Pre-Joining Fitness Assessment​

A step up from the regular pre-joining test.

The Pre-Joining Fitness Assessment (PJFA) event is an opportunity to meet with the Royal Marines InReach team and start preparing for the Commando Preparation Course (CPC) and Royal Marines training.

The InReach team is made up of serving Royal Marines who are at various stages of their careers. They have been loaned to the careers service to mentor and guide you in your preparation for a career in the Royal Marines. The team is available to answer any questions you may have about life in the Royal Marines and can offer valuable insights based on their own experiences.

The first step is to assess your current fitness level with the PJFA. You can attend as many PJFA events as you need to prepare yourself physically and mentally for Royal Marine training.

Royal Marine Commando | Pre-Joining Fitness Assessment

The Pre-Joining Fitness Assessment (PJFA) event is an opportunity to meet with the Royal Marines InReach team and start preparing for the Commando Preparation Course (CPC) and Royal Marines training.

www.royalnavy.mod.uk

Maybe police forces will look at something similar as well.

I suspect a lot of police, and other similar agencies, offloaded testing like PT and training like first aid because it was cheaper, and it created a filter for those who really wanted to join. Now that less people are looking to join, maybe they need to go back to considering testing/training like that a cost of doing business.

 

[Harris]

So where are the people who would normally joining going instead? Are they influencers? Living in Mom's basement playing video games all day? I imagine some of our problems are created by the fact that as the Boomers retire, a lot more jobs are being made available than there used to be. And those that now exist have less hurdles to get them. Serving in the CAF is hard. Working a Government job for example is less hard (I generalize of course). Do we make it easier to join knowing we will have greater churn than before, but at least keeping some who otherwise might not even try to get in? 100 new soldiers who stay in while 900 leave during the initial process/trg may be better than 10 staying out of 100 who make it through the old (harder) process. Can we manage that churn? IMO until we have a frank discussion on what the CAF is, what it wants to do based on sound Government direction and stable funding, we will continue to circle the drain, hoping that someone in the future puts the plug in.

Unemployment has overall gone down from previous years (less COVID in 2020) according to Canada Unemployment Rate 1991-2024.

 

[dapaterson]

There are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

CAF recruiting numbers tend to fall into the middle category.

Philosophical question: is someone an applicant when they sign a paper saying they are interested? Or should they only be counted as an applicant once they provide the required supporting documents? Which definition you choose has major implications for how you need to interpret the data.