Religious/Extremist Terrorism: Non-Muslim edition

[QV]

Fine, I don't Jews. Better? Explain that away.

I’m not racist, I’d never say I hate a specific race. But there are ideologies I don’t agree with.

 

[Altair]

I am unaware of the Proud Boys killing anybody. If I remember correctly, they current or last leader is/was Hispanic. They began as a joke, and I do not see them as a real threat. The KKK, as I have said, are a creation of the Democrat party, which is not "far-right".

You are aware that the Democratic Party was the conservative party until sometime between Teddy Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt at which point it became the left leaning party and the KKK was founded in 1865?

Property may not always be rebuilt. Many of those who lost property cannot afford to replace it, ever. Their lives and livelihoods are shattered.

But they are not DEAD. Its hard to reverse death. Death is a very permanent thing.

That cannot be simply waved away.

I would rather be completely and utterly broke, than dead.

And I'm not defensive, nor am I saying that extremists are not a problem. I merely disagree with terminology.

Far right should not be a controversial terminology.

 

[Altair]

I’m not racist, I’d never say I hate a specific race. But there are ideologies I don’t agree with.

Okay, so its okay for someone to go around saying they do not like jews?

Could I say that in the CAF?

 

[Edward Campbell]

You are aware that the Democratic Party was the conservative party until sometime between Teddy Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt at which point it became the left leaning party and the KKK was founded in 1865?

The Democrats were rarely a conservative party unless you're using the American media's definitions ~ and they don't understand what liberal and conservative really mean. The Southern Flip, the slow death of the Dixiecrats and the move of the South away from the Democrats and towards the Republicans, started in the 1960s and '70s ... long, long after FDR, even after LBJ. It wasn't complete until after the Reagan Era. Some suggest that the Dixiecrats are rising again ~ Biden won Georgia, after all.

 

[lenaitch]

So what, then, differentiates a hate crime from a terrorist attack?

I stand to be corrected as I have been out for a very long time, but my understanding is the only hate 'crime' in Canada under the Criminal Code is 'willfully promoting hatred' ('hate speech'). All other aspects are sentencing guidelines for the court, after conviction of course, if they determine the substantive offence was motivated by hate, bias or prejudice on certain named grounds. There are also a myriad of provincial human rights legislations, but they aren't criminal law.

 

[Loachman]

I stand to be corrected as I have been out for a very long time, but my understanding is the only hate 'crime' in Canada under the Criminal Code is 'willfully promoting hatred' ('hate speech'). All other aspects are sentencing guidelines for the court, after conviction of course, if they determine the substantive offence was motivated by hate, bias or prejudice on certain named grounds. There are also a myriad of provincial human rights legislations, but they aren't criminal law.

Thanks.

It seems that the distinction can be subtle.

 

[Loachman]

You are aware that the Democratic Party was the conservative party until sometime between Teddy Roosevelt and Franklin Roosevelt at which point it became the left leaning party and the KKK was founded in 1865?

I don't see supporting slavery as a particularly conservative value - and Britain and Canada had already abolished slavery by the time of the US Civil War.

But they are not DEAD. Its hard to reverse death. Death is a very permanent thing.

I would rather be completely and utterly broke, than dead.

Yet many people choose death over economic devastation.

Around one in five suicides linked to unemployment

Claire Niedzwiedz summarises the Lancet Psychiatry longitudinal modelling study of suicide and unemployment.

www.nationalelfservice.net

Far right should not be a controversial terminology.

To some, perhaps.

 

[Altair]

The Democrats were rarely a conservative party unless you're using the American media's definitions ~ and they don't understand what liberal and conservative really mean. The Southern Flip, the slow death of the Dixiecrats and the move of the South away from the Democrats and towards the Republicans, started in the 1960s and '70s ... long, long after FDR, even after LBJ.

Barry Goldwater only won in the south, no?

It wasn't complete until after the Reagan Era. Some suggest that the Dixiecrats are rising again ~ Biden won Georgia, after all.

FDR was the start of the progressive and left agenda, would you not say?

 

[Loachman]

Some suggest that the Dixiecrats are rising again ~ Biden won Georgia, after all.

Yet many states, including Georgia, are following Arizona's lead and initiating forensic investigations into the conduct of the last election and cleaning up their election laws.

But that's another topic, and I also have things to do that I have been ignoring for too long tonight.

 

[Weinie]

Heh. My Pastor told me the bible was the word of God and we cannot question Gods word.

That seems incompatible with western society now that I think about it.

Yet....western Muslims have. Again, unless you can explain how Canadian Muslims vote en masse for the LPC, who love gays, LGBTQ, women's equality, all stuff that political Islam rails against. Can you make sense of that?

Neither is Islam. Is Mayor Nenshi a example of Political Islam?

Yes so all the individuals are not practicing political Islam....makes one think Islam in the west Muslims do not practice political Islam...

Its almost like they are politically secular and spiritually devout...like every other religion....

Go figure.

20 years is a generation, lets go with that.

There are only two real viable political alternatives within Canada, Liberal or Conservative. So do Canadian Muslims vote for a political imperative that encourages immigration and liberal approaches on policy, or an imperative that espouses less immigration and conservative approaches. Methinks the former. Realpolitik is rampant. Liberals views on a variety of topics, many of which are anathema to Islam, is irrelevant in this context.

 

[lenaitch]

London Police Chief on holding back releasing information to protect the investigation. Item 5 in the story reflects how much we are affected by US laws and media.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-muslim-family-attack-police-chief-explains-1.6059198

 

[mariomike]

So do Canadian Muslims vote for a political imperative that encourages immigration and liberal approaches on policy, or an imperative that espouses less immigration and conservative approaches. Methinks the former.

Methinks this is how Canadian Muslims vote.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-environics-muslims-politics-1.3555216

 

[Brad Sallows]

FDR was the start of the progressive and left agenda, would you not say?

Earlier. Woodrow Wilson.

 

[Altair]

Earlier. Woodrow Wilson.

i agree, it why I originally said between the two Roosevelts.

 

[mariomike]

Could we stay on topic? It's literally like everytime someone mentions the US Federal politics you jump in to quote 4 irrelevant words and turn them into a tangent.

Message: "If you want to talk about the US election there is a thread for that."

Thanks. That's a nice suggestion. I tried to reply there. But, the "thread for that" is locked.

 

[OldSolduer]

I’m not racist, I’d never say I hate a specific race. But there are ideologies I don’t agree with.

There's quite a few I disagree with.

 

[PuckChaser]

Message: "If you want to talk about the US election there is a thread for that."

Thanks. That's a nice suggestion. I tried to reply there. But, the "thread for that" is locked.

I'm not one to tell people how to suck eggs, but maybe take the hint with it being locked?

 

[mariomike]

, but maybe take the hint with it being locked?

Hope it stays locked. He's gone.

Which is why I was amused by your suggestion: "If you want to talk about the US election there is a thread for that."

 

[Remius]

So an interesting article why the killer in London might not actually face terrorism charges and how hard it is due to the way the law is designed.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/terrorism-charges-london-muslim-1.6057483

Also so we are having a decent discussion on terrorism vs hate crimes. This happened in Toronto.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/hanlans-point-toronto-beating-1.6059091

so a hate crime but not necessary terrorism despite the fact that a gay person might now feel unsafe walking at night because of this.

 

[brihard]

I know the admins have a room to hash this stuff out. I also know we have a ‘Muslim’ edition of this thread too; I think a couple of the past few pages can probably be moved or split.

Aaaanyway, lots of interesting discussion. I guess from my perspective I’d be interested to know if we’re concerned about writing history or writing Ops plans.

On the occasions where my employer feels it necessary to yank me from behind my desk to throw me out on the road and pretending I’m a real cop again, there are a few things I worry a bit more or a bit less about.

If the ‘far left’ is out in numbers, (which in our context is generally gonna be what could loosely be described as people who identify with antifa, black bloc, etc, I’ll worry that some windows are gonna get smashed and I might be getting some piss bottles thrown at me.

If my fear is a vehicle trying to become one with a crowd, or an active shooter, trends in radical violence suggest the greatest likelihood will be someone of a radicalized Islamist bent (Islamist versus merely being Muslim), or potentially a far right radical (this iverlaps, or someone of the ‘incel’ persuasion who is displeased with women not being attracted to his casual misogyny. These last few categories will likely have some overlap, probably an angry, young, single man who feels he is not where he should be romantically, socially, or economically.

In terms of formed plots with more than one perpetrator, with some sort of violent and ideological intent including loss of human life, odds are very good that you’re looking at either some hard right anti-government types, or radical islamists... the latter can overlap with the lone actors. Daesh’s ideology is still a threat.

The things that have actually happened in Canada recently lean heavily hard right / incel/anti Muslim. Minassian wanted to slaughter women. Bossi eye wanted to slaughter Muslims. Burden intended harm to the Prime Minister. Patrick Matthews, though he did his stupidity on the other side of the border, is hard right. Parliament Hill and Quebec were both radical islamist ideology, though also mentally ill lone Wolf actors. Similarly, the guy who went rogue in a U haul in Edmonton after stabbing a cop.

Canada does not have one universally applicable definition of ‘terrorism’. The Criminal Code defines it quite specifically, and to get those charges tight elements must be hit. A case may be factually, politically, and academically terrorism, but the evidence to achieve a viable prosecution either may not exist, may not be accessible (e.g., encrypted communications) or may not be admissible in court (e.g., national security intelligence). It’s a hell of a lot easier to write a search warrant for straight murder than for terrorism. In these cases, such mundane charges as ‘uttering threats’ and ‘murder’ may need to suffice, judicially. They may not suffice politically, but the latter system can only go so far in pushing the former. In this latest case, we’ll see if police have what they need.