Replacing the Subs

[Retired AF Guy]

I asked my browsers AI this question:

How does the Lithium-Ion batteries work on the South Korean KS-III submarines?

Answer: The South Korean KSS-III (Dosan Ahn Changho-class) Batch-II submarines use advanced lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries developed by Samsung SDI to replace traditional lead-acid systems. These batteries work in tandem with a fuel-cell-based Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system to provide exceptional underwater endurance and speed.

Key Operational Features

• Enhanced Energy Storage: Lithium-ion batteries provide significantly higher energy density than lead-acid batteries, allowing the submarine to store more power in the same volume.
• Propulsion Synergy: The Li-ion batteries are used as the primary energy source for high-speed bursts and standard maneuvering. They are complemented by the Bumhan PEM fuel-cell AIP, which allows for extremely quiet, low-speed cruising and battery recharging while submerged.
• Fast Recharging: These batteries can be recharged much faster than lead-acid counterparts, reducing the time a submarine must spend "snorkeling" (running diesel engines near the surface), which is when it is most vulnerable to detection.
• Underwater Performance: The system enables the submarine to sustain maximum underwater speeds up to three times longer than lead-acid versions.

Performance Metrics

• Submerged Endurance: The KSS-III Batch-II can remain submerged for more than 21 days (three weeks) and has a total cruising range exceeding 7,000 nautical miles.
• Operational Longevity: The batteries offer a life cycle twice as long as lead-acid batteries and require significantly less maintenance due to their simplified mechanical and chemical requirements.

Configuration and Safety

• Distributed Array: The battery system is split into two major groups: approximately 100 strings located in the forward bottom of the hull and another 100 strings in the aft.
• Safety Engineering: Developed in collaboration with the Korea Electrotechnology Research Institute (KERI), the system includes a Battery Management System (BMS) to prevent thermal runaway and has been tested against extreme fire, salt water, and shock conditions.

South Korea is only the second country in the world, after Japan, to operationalize this technology in its submarine fleet.

And if you are wondering how the AIP system works, here is a good article on the subject and how different countries are utilizing different AIP technologies:

Developments in Lithium-ion Batteries and AIP Systems for Submarines

The latest developments in Lithium-ion battery (LIB) systems in the underwater domain have resulted in significant advantages for submarine operations compared to standard lead-acid batteries and have increased the number of new submarine procurement programmes.

euro-sd.com

 

[Kirkhill]

That PEM fuel cell. I believe it requires both a tankful of hydrogen and one of oxygen.

The waste product is water.

Hydrogen, oxygen, water, power...
how long can life be sustained with just those if surfacing becomes impossible?

 

[Underway]

That PEM fuel cell. I believe it requires both a tankful of hydrogen and one of oxygen.

The waste product is water.

Hydrogen, oxygen, water, power...
how long can life be sustained with just those if surfacing becomes impossible?

It's the same type of fuel cell that was used in the Space Shuttle. The answer to your question is how much fuel do you have. Its an extremely efficient reaction just very expensive to put LOX and LH2 into tanks. Weight to power ratio is about as high as you can go.

 

[HavokFour]

I realized I slightly missed my post target last night.

If this is correct, it appears they key for Hanwha winning the sub contract over TKMS is a Hyundai Motor plant being built in Canada. Germany may also be mulling over a similar move with a Volkswagen plant.

Presidential Chief of Staff Kang Hoon-sik said on the 2nd that the Canadian government requested Hyu.. - MK

Presidential Chief of Staff Kang Hoon-sik said on the 2nd that the Canadian government requested Hyundai Motor to build a plant in the country regarding the Canadian next-generation submarine project ..

www.mk.co.kr

 

[Underway]

I realized I slightly missed my post target last night.

If this is correct, it appears they key for Hanwha winning the sub contract over TKMS is a Hyundai Motor plant being built in Canada. Germany may also be mulling over a similar move with a Volkswagen plant.

Presidential Chief of Staff Kang Hoon-sik said on the 2nd that the Canadian government requested Hyu.. - MK

Presidential Chief of Staff Kang Hoon-sik said on the 2nd that the Canadian government requested Hyundai Motor to build a plant in the country regarding the Canadian next-generation submarine project ..

www.mk.co.kr

Build what cars for whom? For the Canadian market only as the US is showing it doesn't want cars made outside of the US itself? The only business case I see for that is building Korean or German cars for the Canadian market instead in importing them, which might be a small volume, expensive and inefficient way to build cars.

 

[Good2Golf]

Or for *onward sale to Europe, etc.

 

[MilEME09]

Build what cars for whom? For the Canadian market only as the US is showing it doesn't want cars made outside of the US itself? The only business case I see for that is building Korean or German cars for the Canadian market instead in importing them, which might be a small volume, expensive and inefficient way to build cars.

perhaps cars is only secondary in their manufacturing plan? they do have unsolicited proposals for extensive military manufacturing hub in Canada for domestic and global clients.

 

[YZT580]

perhaps cars is only secondary in their manufacturing plan? they do have unsolicited proposals for extensive military manufacturing hub in Canada for domestic and global clients.

perhaps develop a factory in Canada to turn out tanks and APCs for onward sale. They are a lower volume item and much in demand right now

 

[GR66]

Build what cars for whom? For the Canadian market only as the US is showing it doesn't want cars made outside of the US itself? The only business case I see for that is building Korean or German cars for the Canadian market instead in importing them, which might be a small volume, expensive and inefficient way to build cars.

How about they instead build a Kia plant for continuous build of these?

Kia Special Vehicle 공식 웹사이트

기아 특수차량 공식 웹 사이트

org-military.kia.com

 

[HavokFour]

I realized I slightly missed my post target last night.

If this is correct, it appears they key for Hanwha winning the sub contract over TKMS is a Hyundai Motor plant being built in Canada. Germany may also be mulling over a similar move with a Volkswagen plant.

Presidential Chief of Staff Kang Hoon-sik said on the 2nd that the Canadian government requested Hyu.. - MK

Presidential Chief of Staff Kang Hoon-sik said on the 2nd that the Canadian government requested Hyundai Motor to build a plant in the country regarding the Canadian next-generation submarine project ..

www.mk.co.kr

Now we have G&M saying the same.

Canada asks South Koreans, Germans for auto sector production pledges as part of submarine bid: source

Ottawa narrowed its search to two conglomerates last year, and is now requesting commitments from Hyundai and Volkswagen

www.theglobeandmail.com

Archive

 

[Czech_pivo]

Now we have G&M saying the same.

Canada asks South Koreans, Germans for auto sector production pledges as part of submarine bid: source

Ottawa narrowed its search to two conglomerates last year, and is now requesting commitments from Hyundai and Volkswagen

www.theglobeandmail.com

Archive

In addition to the above

Korean govt, Hyundai Motor officials head to Canada for $41 bn submarine deal tied to auto investment​

The presence of Hyundai Motor executives is drawing particular attention as Ottawa links the submarine project to its ambition of becoming an auto giant​

Korean govt, Hyundai Motor officials head to Canada for $41 bn submarine deal tied to auto investment - KED Global

South Korea is working on a high-stakes diplomatic and industrial push in Canada as Seoul and its leading manufacturers seek to secure what could be one of the

www.kedglobal.com

 

[SeaKingTacco]

In addition to the above

Korean govt, Hyundai Motor officials head to Canada for $41 bn submarine deal tied to auto investment​

The presence of Hyundai Motor executives is drawing particular attention as Ottawa links the submarine project to its ambition of becoming an auto giant​

Korean govt, Hyundai Motor officials head to Canada for $41 bn submarine deal tied to auto investment - KED Global

South Korea is working on a high-stakes diplomatic and industrial push in Canada as Seoul and its leading manufacturers seek to secure what could be one of the

www.kedglobal.com

Hmmm…I think we are getting close to having a winning bidder…

 

[Czech_pivo]

Hmmm…I think we are getting close to having a winning bidder…

lol, if the SK’s drop that Hyundai plant in Montreal it’s game over.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

lol, if the SK’s drop that Hyundai plant in Montreal it’s game over.

Sadly (not because the South Koreans don’t make good subs- I think that they probably do), it is typically Canadian that such a contract would turn on something entirely predictably as that.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Sadly (not because the South Koreans don’t make good subs- I think that they probably do), it is typically Canadian that such a contract would turn on something entirely predictably as that.

It just feels like a ‘Mob’ thing.
Hey Tony, I wanna buy some bent vending machines from you but I need youse to buy some of Uncle Vito’s men’s suits that he ‘found.’ You do this for me and we both win.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

From the Globe and Mail article:

Stephen Fuhr, secretary of state for defence procurement, has repeatedly said Canada will pick the submarine bid that creates the most Canadian jobs.

While getting jobs for Canadians is nice, the priority for choosing the subs, or any military equipment for that matter, should be the system that most fills Canadian requirements.

 

[OldSolduer]

From the Globe and Mail article:



While getting jobs for Canadians is nice, the priority for choosing the subs, or any military equipment for that matter, should be the system that most fills Canadian requirements.

So are we going to get the LSVW of submarines? I am only half joking here....

 

[Genetk44]

This showed up in my Facebook feed a few minutes ago. "Canada appears to be complicating a demanding military procurement by allowing broader industrial considerations to creep into what should remain a tightly focused submarine requirement. Linking a long term under ice warfare capability to auto sector production pledges risks blurring priorities that are, by nature, highly specialized: crew training pipelines, sustained availability, sovereign in service support, and credible endurance over several decades. Experience suggests that when defence projects are asked to satisfy too many unrelated objectives, the result is often added complexity rather than added value.
Both prospective partners Germany and South Korea already offer mature designs and established industrial cooperation models. A procurement process that emphasizes delivery schedules, training continuity, realistic sustainment, and operational suitability would play to those strengths. Expanding the evaluation to include broader economic offsets may unintentionally shift attention away from these fundamentals. The concern is not that industrial benefits are unimportant, but that they risk overshadowing the core naval requirement, leading to delays, cost growth, and difficult trade offs later. Past experience suggests that keeping the focus narrow and operationally grounded is the best way to ensure submariners ultimately receive a capability that meets their needs on time and in full.

 

[OldSolduer]

This showed up in my Facebook feed a few minutes ago. "Canada appears to be complicating a demanding military procurement by allowing broader industrial considerations to creep into what should remain a tightly focused submarine requirement. Linking a long term under ice warfare capability to auto sector production pledges risks blurring priorities that are, by nature, highly specialized: crew training pipelines, sustained availability, sovereign in service support, and credible endurance over several decades. Experience suggests that when defence projects are asked to satisfy too many unrelated objectives, the result is often added complexity rather than added value.
Both prospective partners Germany and South Korea already offer mature designs and established industrial cooperation models. A procurement process that emphasizes delivery schedules, training continuity, realistic sustainment, and operational suitability would play to those strengths. Expanding the evaluation to include broader economic offsets may unintentionally shift attention away from these fundamentals. The concern is not that industrial benefits are unimportant, but that they risk overshadowing the core naval requirement, leading to delays, cost growth, and difficult trade offs later. Past experience suggests that keeping the focus narrow and operationally grounded is the best way to ensure submariners ultimately receive a capability that meets their needs on time and in full.

Thanks for this. Maybe Germany and Korea should rethink their positions WRT to Canada wanting subs.

IMO this GoC no more wants subs than it wants an election.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Thanks for this. Maybe Germany and Korea should rethink their positions WRT to Canada wanting subs.

IMO this GoC no more wants subs than it wants an election.

The issue could also that we are about to be slapped hard by the US in terms of auto sector job losses and possibly other areas and this is being used to try to offset these losses in any way possible.