Replenishing the Reserves, while cutting NDHQ reserve excesses

[George Wallace]

Unfortunately there is really no incentive for many annuitants to CT back to the Regs.  I don't know any who are willing to repay pension payments (my co-worker has been an annuitant for 2 years, thats $45,000 in pension.....

Many are nearing CRA and what few years they may have left would really not make much sense to CT back to the Reg Force.  They are probably doing more good mentoring the Reserves.  As for paying back of Pension drawn if one does CT back to the Reg Force, I have been told that this is not necessary, unless of course you are buying back Reserve time which is of course a whole different matter.  You would just stop collecting your Reg Pension and start paying back into it as all Service Members do; no paying back of pension received.  Again, only your Reserve time served would have to be bought back if you wanted it tacked onto your Reg Force Pension when you retire again.

 

[Haggis]

The CF career system does that regularly. If you think a few thousand dollars worth of training makes someone "immoveable" you have been living under a rock. I work in a part of the CF where the individual training costs are in the millions and even here, people move on and are not always replaced with someone of similar training and experience ( sometimes, theres no one at all). Things may not function as per SOP at the start but the work can and will get done. No one is irreplaceable.

Agreed, but you're missing my point.  It's imprudent to do so, particularly when that "capablility" plucked off the Afghan desert would more properly benefit the field force.

 

[vonGarvin]

Agreed, but you're missing my point.  It's imprudent to do so, particularly when that "capablility" plucked off the Afghan desert would more properly benefit the field force.

Or the training force.  ATCs or even one of the Schools.

 

[McG]

The only Class B's that the Army can cut are those owned by the Army. 

Gen Leslie is working on a CF project.  He will be able to cut the Class B bloat out of regular force establishments across the CF.

There are an awful lot of things that won't get done at NDHQ and, more importantly, elsewhere if this isn't managed properly.  It's imprudent to believe that the Reg F members coming back from Afghanistan can be easily slooted onto an existing Class B position somewhere.

Of course, there are redundancies, inefficiencies and even superfluous HQs.  There is room for streamlining of the institutional structure in order to find PYs for essential structures and essential work.

 

[George Wallace]

I remember back in my past........One of my previous employments as a Reservist..........In the '70s........Back then, the big thing was to train the Reserves to a level where they could train themselves and to run themselves.  That can not happen on Class 'A' days.  That would mean more RSS or even another kick at the cat to attempt the 10/90 Bns again.  We have witnessed their failure in the past.  Are we about to try and reinvent a broken wheel?

 

[Haggis]

Gen Leslie is working on a CF project.  He will be able to cut the Class B bloat out of regular force establishments across the CF.

He will be able to reccommend cuts, in dollars or numbers of personnel.  It will still be up to the L1's (i.e. The Army) to meet the goals set by managing their own priorities.

Of course, there are redundancies, inefficiencies and even superfluous HQs.  There is room for streamlining of the institutional structure in order to find PYs for essential structures and essential work.

Yes, and the fear is - always - that those organizations' survival skills will help them to dodge the brunt of the cuts.

Don't get me wrong.  We need some institutional streamlining.  The Regular Force has become addicted to Class B as a way of filling shortfalls and circumventing the glacial civilian staffing processes in DND.  We just have to be smart and careful about how it's done.

 

[Journeyman]

We just have to be smart and careful about how it's done.

I think that's the concern; many of us, yourself included, have been around long enough to know that, quite often, that ain't the way it happens 

 

[aesop081]

Agreed, but you're missing my point.  It's imprudent to do so, particularly when that "capablility" plucked off the Afghan desert would more properly benefit the field force.

Benefiting the field force does not mean employment in the field force only. Imagine what experienced vets could do for the field force if they were working at DLR.......or would taking away the ability to bitch about that organization cause too much trauma for the line guys ?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Take a cup of water out of a pail and it doesn't leave a hole. People retire, quit, get sick and die. I have no sympathy for anyone getting canned just because they are someone's favorite or they believe themselves untouchable. Everyone is replaceable and the pittance, in the great scheme of things, to train a replacement is not an excuse.

 

[PanaEng]

I remember back in my past........One of my previous employments as a Reservist..........In the '70s........Back then, the big thing was to train the Reserves to a level where they could train themselves and to run themselves.  That can not happen on Class 'A' days.  That would mean more RSS or even another kick at the cat to attempt the 10/90 Bns again.  We have witnessed their failure in the past.  Are we about to try and reinvent a broken wheel?

I still think the concept of that "wheel" is still sound and worthwhile; the "wheel" broke because the "spokes" were not well designed.
How to make the "wheel" and the "spokes" of the 10/90 Bns work? - that, I don't know. (still need more coffee to think straight - had two new Sgt dumped at our mess by the Jr's last night and a new Lt ;-)  )

cheers,
Frank

 

[Michael OLeary]

How to make the "wheel" and the "spokes" of the 10/90 Bns work?

I think where it went wrong is that the initial common envisioning of the concept was Reserve units receiving enough Reg F staff to form 10% of the unit strength.  What we created was Reg F units manned at 10% which then stripped local Res units to fill the empty 90% of their establishment as needed for exercises, etc.

 

[Remius]

Last year I went through this.

Was I bitter about it? Yep.  But you have to move on.  Unfortunately my attitude changed though.

All that extra unseen "free" work I did now comes with a pay sheet or I don't do it.  Fan outs, e-mails to troops etc.  It will either happen on paid days or some one full time can do it.  During OP Candence I was asked to fill a position and if I could get time off from my employer.  The answer was a big no.  Did the operation still go on without me?  Of course.  I`m not irreplaceble nor do I think I am but as far as I'm concerned it is someone else's problem.

I'm required to come in one night a week, one weekend a month.  That`s the deal.  And that is what they are getting.

 

[McG]

In counter to some of the initial panic that PRes establishments are in for a slashing, from CANFORGEN 229/10 :

1.  THE LEVEL OF PRIMARY RESERVE EMPLOYMENT HAS INCREASED SIGNIFICANTLY OVER THE PREVIOUS FIVE YEARS WITH GROWTH BEING PRIMARILY DIRECTED TO FULL-TIME (CLASS B AND C) SERVICE TO SUPPORT THE INCREASED OPERATIONAL TEMPO DUE TO TFA, THE INITIAL STAFFING OF NEW CFDS CAPABILITIES AS WELL AS SUPPORT TO KEY EQUIPMENT TRANSITIONS WITHIN AIR COMMAND. THIS LEVEL OF FULL-TIME EMPLOYMENT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE IN THE LONG TERM AND NEEDS TO BE RATIONALIZED


2.  AT THE SAME TIME, PART-TIME (CLASS A) EMPLOYMENT MUST INCREASE AND OTHER PRIMARY RESERVE FORCE GENERATION REQUIREMENTS (CLASS B(A) AND CLASS B SUMMER TRG REQUIREMENTS) MUST BE PROTECTED IN ORDER TO ENSURE THE HEALTH AND SUSTAINABILITY OF THE EXPANDED PRIMARY RESERVE CAPACITY MANDATED UNDER CFDS


3.  I HAVE ESTABLISHED A WORKING GROUP THAT WILL WORK WITH THE CANADIAN FORCES TRANSFORMATION TEAM AND THE DEFENCE FORCE STRUCTURE REVIEW TO DEVELOP A PLAN FOR THE SUSTAINABLE ALLOCATION OF PRIMARY RESERVE PART TIME AND FULL TIME SERVICE. THE WORKING GROUP WILL FIRST LOOK AT STABILIZATION AND THEN RATIONALIZATION OF ALL CLASSES OF P RES EMPLOYMENT

...

5.  THE AIM IS TO ENSURE THAT OUR FUTURE P RES CAPACITY IS WITHIN PLANNED FUNDING AND BALANCED BETWEEN P RES FORCE GENERATION REQUIREMENTS AND THE NEEDS FOR AUGMENTATION/SUPPORT TO CF/DND. OVER THE LONGER TERM (2012/2014), THIS WILL RESULT IN REDUCED CLASS B AND C EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES AND INCREASED CLASS A EMPLOYMENT. DURING IMPLEMENTATION, PERSONNEL IN POSITIONS THAT ARE TO BE RATIONALIZED WILL NORMALLY BE ALLOWED TO SERVE OUT THEIR CURRENT PERIOD OF FULL-TIME SERVICE BEFORE REVERTING TO PART-TIME STATUS IN ORDER TO ENSURE A SMOOTH TRANSITION FOR BOTH THE EMPLOYER AND THE AFFECTED RESERVIST. IT IS INTENDED THAT PHASE 4 WILL OCCUR AS PART OF THE END OF AND CLOSE OUT OF THE TFA MISSION