Reservist flying to Kabul as a civilian?

[Jarnhamar]

Say your a reservist and you have a friend who is working in Kabul as a civilian and want to visit them.
Can you as a member of Canada's primary reserve (not on a class C or B contract) fly to Kabul for say a week or two to visit someone?
Would you be considered a civilian?

I know flying anywhere outside the country you need a security brief from MPs (if I'm not mistaken) but what about a theater of war? I would imagine it falls under different rules?

 

[Michael OLeary]

You will probably get the most current and acurate information in answer to this if you consult with your local MP section.

 

[Haggis]

Chapter 38 of the National Defence security Policy states:

"38.02 It is DND policy to provide defensive security briefings and debriefings (DSB/ DBDs) to CF personnel and DND civilian employees prior to and after travel, or contact with foreign nationals, as applicable. In certain instances, all members of this department are required to report travel or contact with foreign nationals to the appropriate local security authority.

PERSONNEL TO WHOM THIS ORDER APPLIES

38.03 The following persons are subject to the provisions of this security policy:
a. all Canadian Forces personnel;
b. all DND civilian employees;
c. Reserve Forces Members, whether on active service or not;"

Again, in the patronizing language of bureaucratic Ottawa, Reservists are not considered "Canadian Forces personnel".  Granted, though, that this policy also still makes reference to the SIU, therefore the text is likely quite dated.

Another thing to consider is your life insurance coverage.  You may well violate the terms and conditions of your policy by travelling to a "war zone"

 

[1feral1]

Say your a reservist and you have a friend who is working in Kabul as a civilian and want to visit them.
Can you as a member of Canada's primary reserve (not on a class C or B contract) fly to Kabul for say a week or two to visit someone?
Would you be considered a civilian?

I know flying anywhere outside the country you need a security brief from MPs (if I'm not mistaken) but what about a theater of war? I would imagine it falls under different rules?

I don't think the deployed Mbr is going to get any time off for a visit anyways (in my time in country not one day off period, shy of my leave of course), so why not meet when the Mbr takes his HLTA at an agreed locality in a safe and happy environment.

A-stan might be 'scheduled' for CF Mbrs not deployed anyways, and besides why holiday in hell in the first place.

Regards,

Wes

 

[Haggis]

A-stan might be 'scheduled' for CF Mbrs not deployed anyways,....

It most certainly is.  Additionally, the DFAIT warning, which applies to civilian travel, is pretty clear (http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=1000#2):

"OFFICIAL WARNING: Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against all travel to this country. Canadians in this country should leave."

Flawed Design:  tell the member to go someplace nice and warm to holiday with their friend..... someplace with a beach.  ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

I don't think the deployed Mbr is going to get any time off for a visit anyways

Hey Wes, He's in Kakul as a civilian, used to be army but got out. Not sure how they work their leave, he's there on a 3 year contract.

My biggest question was can a reservist visit Afghanistan in an unofficial manner. ie visitor (tourist sounds a little odd)

 

[Haggis]

My biggest question was can a reservist visit Afghanistan in an unofficial manner. ie visitor (tourist sounds a little odd)

See my first post in this thread.  In short, the answer is "yes.... but".

The bottom line is that you, as a Class "A" Reservist, are a civvy unless you have signed a pay sheet.  Any trip of this nature is, of course, "at your own risk".  Your insurer would probably go all "Mission Impossible" on you (should you be killed or captured this company will disavow any knowledge of your actions).

 

[westie47]

Enjoy the flight in on either KamAir or Ariana Airlines!!!!!!! It is not something to miss....hahahaha. Oh by the way, if you go during winter, they have no de-icing capability so you may have a longer holiday than you planned.

 

[a78jumper]

Ya forgot Azerbaijan's Tu 154s! I flew out of  KBL on one of those and it was an experience. And they did not call it Scariana for nothing, ancient A300 rejects from Indian Airlines and 727s that used to be Air France. FLying either is an experience you will not forget. Meals on Scariana:

http://www.airlinemeals.net/indexMeals.html          scroll down to Ariana Afghan, mmmmmmmm good!

In all honesty I can not imagine wanting to visit anyone there, and as suggested wait until your bud has a break and meet him/her in Dubai or Goa, India and really enjoy yourself.

While I was there two Swiss "tourists" that had arrived from Pakistan by via over the Kyber pass were stoned to death only a km from Camp Julien.

 

[1feral1]

Hey Wes, He's in Kakul as a civilian, used to be army but got out. Not sure how they work their leave, he's there on a 3 year contract.

My biggest question was can a reservist visit Afghanistan in an unofficial manner. ie visitor (tourist sounds a little odd)

Mate, like I said, meet elsewhere and enjoy some relative safety with security with a proper bar, decent hotels, water you can drink, western food, and maybe some western women to boot. Having to be constantly checking one's six can be tiring.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[westie47]

oh, but there are bars in Kabul you can go to...there is The Russian Bar, Princess, and a few others.

 

[IBM]

Ya forgot Azerbaijan's Tu 154s! I flew out of  KBL on one of those and it was an experience. And they did not call it Scariana for nothing, ancient A300 rejects from Indian Airlines and 727s that used to be Air France. FLying either is an experience you will not forget. Meals on Scariana:

http://www.airlinemeals.net/indexMeals.html          scroll down to Ariana Afghan, mmmmmmmm good!

In all honesty I can not imagine wanting to visit anyone there, and as suggested wait until your bud has a break and meet him/her in Dubai or Goa, India and really enjoy yourself.

While I was there two Swiss "tourists" that had arrived from Pakistan by via over the Kyber pass were stoned to death only a km from Camp Julien.

FYI, Ariana is banned from flying to Europe by the EU civil aviation authority due to "lack of acceptable aircraft safety & maintenance concerns". So yes, I'd agree with everyone in saying you should pospone your trip until such time Afgan is no longer a war zone.

 

[a78jumper]

Actually Ariana flies to Frankfurt, but using wet leased aircraft from another company. And yes, their aircraft are old and nasty. That never stopped my employer, a contractor for DND from using them, despite numerous direct complaints to the MND from its employees. Probably your best bet if you still insist on going is Pakistan Int'l.

 

[westie47]

Kam Air is only slightly better....drunken pilots/crew, handheld GPS by the pilot, bad service, seats not bolted down.....people payt big money at amusement parks for these kinds of rides!

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

i think as a civilian you would be asking for trouble. your short hair and general looks of a soldier would get you in a person jam. I would check with your Orderly Room. When I was in the reserves in the 90s a guy wanted to go to Ireland for a family wedding and because of the troubles over it was suggested he grow his  hair a little longer and such so he did not look like a British soldier and risk injury by the various groups over there.( had to talk to RSm about his hair cut and agreed upon waiver)

As you are considering going over as a Civie you might want to check about medical help should you be some where has incident while your in the area. Canadian Forces do not have to treat you or pay for your care if you are injuried as you are there and not a serving member at time of incident in which you may or may not be hurt.
If your from Ontario Ontario Health Card is not any good to over there and private medical insurance more then likely will not cover you.
Meet your friend in another country and enjoy  your holiday and let your friend enjoy his or her holiday without worrying any one else.
if you must go, check and see what  your Unit has to say  about your safety and so on

 

[IBM]

Actually Ariana flies to Frankfurt, but using wet leased aircraft from another company. And yes, their aircraft are old and nasty. That never stopped my employer, a contractor for DND from using them, despite numerous direct complaints to the MND from its employees. Probably your best bet if you still insist on going is Pakistan Int'l.

Yeah, I think they lease planes to get around the ban, and the EU lets Ariana do that cause that way the planes would meet EU regulatory standards. I think its mainly cause the EU don't trust the Afghan authorities to be competent enough yet to properly regulate Ariana.

My info source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariana_Afghan_Airlines

 

[Yrys]

You know, by reading your comments on the airline,
clud aventure could sell only the airplane trip as ''adventure of a lifetime''  ;D

It's it scarier for people that know about how an airplane is suppose to work,
to take that king of trip?

 

[NL_engineer]

You know, by reading your comments on the airline,
clud aventure could sell only the airplane trip as ''adventure of a lifetime''  ;D

It's it scarier for people that know about how an airplane is suppose to work,
to take that king of trip?

Make shore that you take a parashoot as a carry-on, and get a seat next to the emergency exit of said airplane  ;D

 

[a78jumper]

Yeah, I think they lease planes to get around the ban, and the EU lets Ariana do that cause that way the planes would meet EU regulatory standards. I think its mainly cause the EU don't trust the Afghan authorities to be competent enough yet to properly regulate Ariana.

My info source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariana_Afghan_Airlines

I still remember arriving at Kabul International, and seeing an Ariana A300 on the tarmac with every conceivable access panel open, while about 100 Afgan men looked on while squatting in that peculiar way of passing the time of day there. Not something to inspire confidence though we got on another aircraft. Seven flights with Ariana and I lived to tell about it.