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Review sought after officer kills BC woman in New Brunswick

jacksparrow

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https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/301947/Review-sought-after-officer-kills-BC-woman-in-New-Brunswick

A 26-year-old Indigenous woman from British Columbia has been shot and killed by police in northwestern New Brunswick.

The Edmundston Police Force says it received a request to check on a woman's well-being at an apartment building early Thursday morning.

The force says the officer who responded to the call encountered a "woman holding a knife who made threats."

It says the officer fired a weapon and attempted to resuscitate the woman, who was from Port Alberni, but she was pronounced dead at the scene.

The force says it's asking for an independent review of the shooting, and New Brunswick RCMP will help with the investigation as "a matter of accountability."

First Nations groups identified the woman as Chantel Moore.
 

Kilted

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I think that it is pretty straightforward to say that this was a justified use of force.
 

Ironman118

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Happens all the time unfortunately. Welfare check was probably called in by a neighbour or someone she knew, clearly has MHA issues.
 

CBH99

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The issue I have with this is the way the media chooses to report it.

And I realize racism & police heavy handedness is front & center in the media right now.  But for a long time, I've had an issue with the way the media reports these types of events. 

I personally think it either shows institutional racism on behalf of the media, or perhaps unintentionally (or worse, low key intentionally) stokes the racism fires and keeps the issue far more alive than it needs to be.



Why mention race?  It has literally nothing to do with the situation that occurred.

A woman had the police go check on her, as someone called the police about her behaviour.  In checking up on her, she had a knife, and a situation happened.


Why not just report 'A woman was killed in this incident, blah blah blah.'  Why mention "indigenous woman"?  Doesn't matter in the slightest. 

And the officer's actions were clearly the result of a weapon being produced by someone who was experiencing some form of mental health episode.  By mentioning race, even in passing, it creates an optic that is unfair and unnecessary.




If I'm experiencing some form of mental health episode, and someone calls the police to go check on me, I produce a knife and get into a physical altercation with the officer, and he ends up shooting me?  That's an officer safety issue, not a racism issue.  Even if the officer is a different skin colour, it has nothing to do with the situation that I clearly caused.  :facepalm:  :2c:
 

Kat Stevens

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All true. However. If the press didn't report the woman's ethnicity at the time of the incident, you can bet the family of the deceased would have upon notification. Then we have "Racist NB Cops Cover Up Murder of BC Aboriginal Woman". Lose/lose situation for cops when any mixed race shooting incident occurs. 
 

captloadie

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CBH99 said:
Why mention race?  It has literally nothing to do with the situation that occurred.

If I'm experiencing some form of mental health episode, and someone calls the police to go check on me, I produce a knife and get into a physical altercation with the officer, and he ends up shooting me?  That's an officer safety issue, not a racism issue.  Even if the officer is a different skin colour, it has nothing to do with the situation that I clearly caused.  :facepalm:  :2c:

First, I'm not calling you out personally, but I'm highlighting why these sentiments show the majority of us don't get it. Why we don't know for certain, there is a high degree of probability that race did play a large factor. It is one of the driving factors for the protests in the streets going on these days. There is an learned bias that becomes ingrained in people when they deal with different slices of society, partly from personal experience, and partly from institutional bias and stereotyping. The officer involved here was aware that he was dealing with an individual with potential mental health issues. From accounts I've read, he was also aware of the ethnicity of the individual. Did that make him hyper vigilant?  Did he think he was going into a "bad situation" with someone who was potentially under the influence of drugs/alcohol? I am not saying the officer was racist. I'm not arguing his actions weren't appropriate. I'm saying that if he had been asked to do a well being check on a 22 year old white college student, he may have prepared, and reacted differently (but that is a what if game).

Let's put this situation in a different light. There are thousands of current and ex-CAF members with mental health issues. There have been many who have taken their own lives, mostly on their own without (physically) hurting others. But what if more of these suicides manifested in a way that were violent to those around them, and local law enforcement. Do you not think this would create a bias that would eventually lead to police to responding differently, every time they encountered a CAF member, be it responding to a wellness check, a domestic dispute call, or a even a simple traffic stop? When it became individuals from our community who were being negatively affected, would we be so quick to say the individual's background isn't important to the story? 
 

Cloud Cover

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No matter which way this is examined, it’s a tragedy.
For the officer: Mere seconds to react, protect yourself and the public from a violent, armed attacker. He has every much right as her to live.
For the family: a mother’s unwell child is dead, shot by the police defending themselves from a violent surprise attack.

For society: another police involved death. Misinformation, fake news, outrage, anarchy, protests, lawsuits, claims of racism and bias. 

I question whether this would be reported differently had she come at him with a long rifle.

This media discussion about two officer patrols. That is a city luxury. In rural and small town Canada it is never going to happen except in very rare instances. Especially in an era where politicians are being pressured to defund police.
 

MilEME09

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The media is swinging this story heavily and it disgusts me personally, headlines and stories that leave out the part about the knife until half way through the article. Then go on about how good of a person they were, etc etc... if a cop was killed or injured we wouldn't be sympathetic.
 

Eye In The Sky

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CBC story link

In a statement, the Edmundston Police Force said officers were called to do a wellness check on a woman in an apartment in the city. When they arrived, she emerged with a knife and attacked an officer, Insp. Steve Robinson told reporters on Thursday.

"He had no choice but to defend himself," Robinson said.
Moore, a 26-year-old Indigenous woman, died at the scene.

Then there is this idiotic  :blah:

"I'm pissed. I'm outraged," Indigenous Services Minister Marc Miller said Friday in Ottawa.
Miller said that he watched several incidents involving police and Indigenous people yesterday in what he described as "disgust."
"I don't understand how someone dies during a wellness check? Police serve Canadians and Indigenous peoples of Canada — not the opposite. These independent inquires need to bring justice," said Miller.

How about attacking the police with a knife?  That might be a small clue.  ::)

"need to bring justice"....so, guilty until proven innocent?  Something something Charter...

Why were they there?

She believes that a man who dated Moore called police from Montreal or Toronto to ask to check on her well-being because he feared she was being harassed by someone.

Tragic, for certain. I don't expect much of a different outcome if I ever have police knock on my door, and I got out with a knife and attack them.



 

Haggis

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Kilted said:
I think that it is pretty straightforward to say that this was a justified use of force.

Really? 

Did she threaten the officer?  Herself? Others?  Did the officer have time and distance on his side?  Did he have cover?  Was there a barrier between him and the subject?  Were there other options he could've used including containment/withdrawal?

Were you there?
 

brihard

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Haggis said:
Really? 

Did she threaten the officer?  Herself? Others?  Did the officer have time and distance on his side?  Did he have cover?  Was there a barrier between him and the subject?  Were there other options he could've used including containment/withdrawal?

Were you there?

All things that will be considered- but bear in mind that tactical repositioning is one of several potential tactical options. Even if available but not utilized as an option, is does not make a use of deadly force in the fact of reasonably perceived death or grievous bodily harm unjustified. More simply, there isn’t a ‘Dury to retreat’. If someone is advancing on you with a knife (note that I don’t know what happened in this case, but it seems a plausible inference from what is reported), you run out of time and options VERY fast.

This will get fully investigated, and hopefully the ‘what happened?’ will get answered.

I have three friends/colleagues off the top of my head that have had to shoot and kill someone on duty. It’s not something anyone starts shift wanting to have happen, and it’s generally the worst experience of someone’s life.
 

Haggis

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Brihard said:
This will get fully investigated, and hopefully the ‘what happened?’ will get answered.

My point, Brihard, was that Kilted's comment was a Olympic class leap to a conclusion given no knowledge of the situational factors that led to the use of lethal force.
 

ballz

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CBH99 said:
The issue I have with this is the way the media chooses to report it.

And I realize racism & police heavy handedness is front & center in the media right now.  But for a long time, I've had an issue with the way the media reports these types of events. 

I personally think it either shows institutional racism on behalf of the media, or perhaps unintentionally (or worse, low key intentionally) stokes the racism fires and keeps the issue far more alive than it needs to be.

Why mention race?  It has literally nothing to do with the situation that occurred.

A woman had the police go check on her, as someone called the police about her behaviour.  In checking up on her, she had a knife, and a situation happened.

I prefer the press to report all of the available facts, and let me sort out which ones are relevant, not relevant, etc. Last thing I need is the media *hiding* facts, sounds like you want them to hide facts to keep the populace ignorant of something that might upset them, there are countries that do that I don't think you'd want to live there.
 

ballz

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Haggis said:
My point, Brihard, was that Kilted's comment was a Olympic class leap to a conclusion given no knowledge of the situational factors that led to the use of lethal force.

Agreed and agreed with your original response to him fully.

When it comes to the presence of a knife, it doesn't take much to put me on the side of police being able to protect themselves, and in this case I lean towards "nothing to see here folks."

But from the little info available here it's ridiculous to make a conclusion one way (as Kilted has demonstrated) or the other (as the Minister has demonstrated).
 

mariomike

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Ironman118 said:
Happens all the time unfortunately. Welfare check was probably called in by a neighbour or someone she knew, clearly has MHA issues.

Wellness checks are very common. I read of one in Maryland that ended badly. Paramedics responded to a home after the guy's brother called 9-1-1, because he couldn't reach his sibling, who suffered from diabetes. After loudly announcing themselves, the crew forced entry through the front door, before police arrived, because they believed it involved a medical emergency.

As the door swung open, the guy opened up with a handgun. One paramedic died at the scene. His partner was wounded.
 

brihard

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Haggis said:
My point, Brihard, was that Kilted's comment was a Olympic class leap to a conclusion given no knowledge of the situational factors that led to the use of lethal force.

Agreed, generally. While on the surface it sounds quite possibly to have been justified, no conclusion can be meaningfully reached based on only the info available.
 

Jarnhamar

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Unfortunately there's examples in Canada of police being "economical with the truth" about their behavior what happens during events like these.

There's also people who are drug addicted, have a history of abuse and violence, who attack police and the attackers family immediately rush forward to talk about how good little jonny or jill is and how they would never hurt a fly.

We have a demand to know RFN culture. Police can be (are?) at a disadvantage because they can't just come right out and defend themselves or talk about what happened.

Instead photo ops taking a knee or pumping fists in the air our leaders need to get every police officer in Canada a body cam.
 

mariomike

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My opinion only here: You've got to leave total authority in these situations with the cop on the street.

It's her, or his, life on the line. Not ours. 
 

Ironman118

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Jarnhamar said:
Instead photo ops taking a knee or pumping fists in the air our leaders need to get every police officer in Canada a body cam.

I work for a Police Service and unfortunately this isn't as easy as everyone makes it seem. Toronto PS had been the pilot project for body cams here in Ontario for awhile, the recent events with the woman who fell off her balcony trying to escape police just expedited the timeline for that it seems.. There's a huge back end that goes into it, you literally need an entire unit dedicated to the storing and retrieval of the footage, as well as the huge tech end of the equation - storing terabytes upon terabytes of footage for court proceedings. I am all for body cams though, I know a lot of people who would be able to do their jobs with a lot more confidence with them..I don't think the body cams are going to tell the story that the media wants to hear though, in fact probably quite the opposite..
 
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