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Review sought after officer kills BC woman in New Brunswick

mariomike

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Nothing new about body cameras in emergency services,
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=641&sxsrf=ALeKk004S1Df7PvzViGLxPONqiK_PHGHtg%3A1591726271008&ei=v9DfXr0RgbO0BseXgdgP&q=ems+body+camera&oq=ems+body+camera&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFAAWABgkVhoAHAAeACAAQCIAQCSAQCYAQCqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwj97Nm3qvXpAhWBGc0KHcdLAPs4ChDh1QMICw#spf=1591726284950
 

Petard

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The media certainly leaned into what seemed topical about this story, but not helping was Inspector Robinson laughing while responding to a question about it.
https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/this-was-racially-motivated-says-grandmother-of-tofino-woman-shot-and-killed-by-n-b-police-1.4969770

Who knows why he let out that chuckle, but because of it, and the nature of the reporting, I expect there'll be suspicion about any investigation.
I wonder how much language might have been an issue, but am skeptical much will be known in the end regardless, other than it was tragic



 

Ironman118

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Petard said:
The media certainly leaned into what seemed topical about this story, but not helping was Inspector Robinson laughing while responding to a question about it.
https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/this-was-racially-motivated-says-grandmother-of-tofino-woman-shot-and-killed-by-n-b-police-1.4969770

Who knows why he let out that chuckle, but because of it, and the nature of the reporting, I expect there'll be suspicion about any investigation.
I wonder how much language might have been an issue, but am skeptical much will be known in the end regardless, other than it was tragic

From that video.. "Why couldn't they have used a tazer on her?"

This I actually applaud the officer for not going for, because the chance of a tazer landing on a moving target, both prongs landing, and having it penetrate clothing is slim to none. I've seen some pretty accurate tazer shots on moving targets but its not a high percentage. If he drew his tazer he'd probably be pretty cut up, maybe dead. Probably more viable to have a tazer if you had a backing officer there, one with tazer, one with sidearm..but whether or not you get a back for welfare checks depends per agency. People need to realize that it doesnt matter what color the person is holding the knife coming at you...just that there WAS a knife and it could kill the officer responding to the call. Here's an idea, when someone identifies themselves as a Police Officer, maybe don't grab a weapon and immediately come at them.  :facepalm:

Basically the same situation in this article, but no country-wide coverage as much as this one with the Indigenous woman is getting. I think people need to ask themselves why, because the only differing factor is the race of the person.

https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/news-story/9794913-st-catharines-man-holding-bread-knife-dies-from-injuries-after-being-shot-by-police/
 

captloadie

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This may be a silly question of LEO members here on the forum, but I'm curious to know something.
Are you taught, like CAF members, that the use of your firearm is for lethal force? That when you draw your weapon with the intention to use it, the training is to aim for centre of mass?
I think many in the public have a believe that police officers are taught to shoot to disable, not kill, perhaps stemming from too many fictional tv shows.
 

Haggis

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captloadie said:
This may be a silly question of LEO members here on the forum, but I'm curious to know something.
Are you taught, like CAF members, that the use of your firearm is for lethal force?
  Simply put, yes. But the presence of your firearm can de-escalate a situation as well.

captloadie said:
That when you draw your weapon with the intention to use it, the training is to aim for centre of mass?
  Yes.  You aim for the centre of available mass.

captloadie said:
I think many in the public have a believe that police officers are taught to shoot to disable, not kill, perhaps stemming from too many fictional TV shows.

Hollywood hasn't done us any favours.  The other thing Hollywood fails to portray is round accountability which is why many agencies, including mine, are moving to a qualification standard where you need 100% hits on target.  A miss is a potential lawsuit in the real world.
 

CBH99

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Ironman118 said:
Here's an idea, when someone identifies themselves as a Police Officer, maybe don't grab a weapon and immediately come at them.  :facepalm:

Basically the same situation in this article, but no country-wide coverage as much as this one with the Indigenous woman is getting. I think people need to ask themselves why, because the only differing factor is the race of the person.

https://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/news-story/9794913-st-catharines-man-holding-bread-knife-dies-from-injuries-after-being-shot-by-police/



Couldn't agree more!!

Race has nothing to do with it.  If your own friends call the police on you, and you turn around and immediately attack them with a knife...chances are, your going to get shot.  Or tazed.  Or taken down hard.  Simple cause & effect... race is irrelevant.

How do so many people actually believe their own nonsense?  The shooting was 'racially motivated'?  How so?

Her own friends called the police on her.  Officer shows up.  She attacks officer with a knife.  She ends up dead.  Don't see how race plays a factor in the slightest...


Basic lesson.  If the police have come to chat with you about behaving like a dummy, and you attack them with a deadly weapon, you get whats coming to you.  Please don't cry to the media about it.  <end of vent>
 

daftandbarmy

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CBH99 said:
Couldn't agree more!!

Race has nothing to do with it.  If your own friends call the police on you, and you turn around and immediately attack them with a knife...chances are, your going to get shot.  Or tazed.  Or taken down hard.  Simple cause & effect... race is irrelevant.

How do so many people actually believe their own nonsense?  The shooting was 'racially motivated'?  How so?

Her own friends called the police on her.  Officer shows up.  She attacks officer with a knife.  She ends up dead.  Don't see how race plays a factor in the slightest...


Basic lesson.  If the police have come to chat with you about behaving like a dummy, and you attack them with a deadly weapon, you get whats coming to you.  Please don't cry to the media about it.  <end of vent>


And, luckily, the Justice system is quite separate from the court of public opinion....
 

Haggis

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daftandbarmy said:
And, luckily, the Justice system is quite separate from the court of public opinion....

It is now.  Hopefully that continues to hold true given recent events.
 

Jarnhamar

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CBH99 said:
Couldn't agree more!!

Race has nothing to do with it.  If your own friends call the police on you, and you turn around and immediately attack them with a knife...chances are, your going to get shot.  Or tazed.  Or taken down hard.  Simple cause & effect... race is irrelevant.

How do so many people actually believe their own nonsense?  The shooting was 'racially motivated'?  How so?

Her own friends called the police on her.  Officer shows up.  She attacks officer with a knife.  She ends up dead.  Don't see how race plays a factor in the slightest...


Basic lesson.  If the police have come to chat with you about behaving like a dummy, and you attack them with a deadly weapon, you get whats coming to you.  Please don't cry to the media about it.  <end of vent>


Gladue sentencing principle recognizes that Aboriginal Peoples face racism and systemic discrimination in and out of the criminal law system, and attempts to deal, with the crisis of over representation /inequities of Aboriginal Peoples in custody, to the extent possible, through changing how judges sentence.

Should Canadian police adopt a similar approach (or recognition) when responding to calls with First Nation suspects to account for mental health, higher than average suicide rates, alcohol and drug use stats?
 

lenaitch

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Jarnhamar said:
Gladue sentencing principle recognizes that Aboriginal Peoples face racism and systemic discrimination in and out of the criminal law system, and attempts to deal, with the crisis of over representation /inequities of Aboriginal Peoples in custody, to the extent possible, through changing how judges sentence.

Should Canadian police adopt a similar approach (or recognition) when responding to calls with First Nation suspects to account for mental health, higher than average suicide rates, alcohol and drug use stats?

Are you thinking about things like exercise of discretion or diversion programs?  At the response level, police often have limited information about the circumstances and limited time to consider it; courts have the advantage of a calm assessment of all available information, professional pre-sentence reports, assessments, etc.  Discretion is always an option under the appropriate circumstance and diversion programs can be useful, if available.  Courts also get to register society's sanction of the act, however they temper that through sentencing.

We have many FN people around here that traditional Anglo or French-Canadian names and look similar to me (white guy).

Of course, non of this matters when it is a matter of officer or public safety.  Why somebody is brandishing a knife, who/what they are or why they are doing it, are moot points.  One of the squirelliest battles I got into in my career was with a FN female who weighed about 100lb.  I later found that she had a knife in her coat pocket but couldn't remove it because it was caught in the ripped lining.
 

Jarnhamar

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lenaitch said:
Are you thinking about things like exercise of discretion or diversion programs? 

I'm not sure. Mostly just thinking out loud. I'll have a read of those though thanks.
 

CBH99

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lenaitch said:
Are you thinking about things like exercise of discretion or diversion programs?  At the response level, police often have limited information about the circumstances and limited time to consider it; courts have the advantage of a calm assessment of all available information, professional pre-sentence reports, assessments, etc.  Discretion is always an option under the appropriate circumstance and diversion programs can be useful, if available.  Courts also get to register society's sanction of the act, however they temper that through sentencing.

We have many FN people around here that traditional Anglo or French-Canadian names and look similar to me (white guy).

Of course, non of this matters when it is a matter of officer or public safety.  Why somebody is brandishing a knife, who/what they are or why they are doing it, are moot points.  One of the squirelliest battles I got into in my career was with a FN female who weighed about 100lb.  I later found that she had a knife in her coat pocket but couldn't remove it because it was caught in the ripped lining.


Same, when it comes to matters of physical violence/weapons/behaviour, race is irrelevant. 

Pretty sure the hardest punch I ever took (and I took 2) was from a 5'2" FN girl.  That girl could HIT!! 


When dealing with family matters, language barriers, cultural customs (knowing what a Kirpan is, for example) - things like that...race & culture are important.

Holding a knife & attacking a cop?  Please don't pull the race card.
 

OldSolduer

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Jarnhamar said:
Gladue sentencing principle recognizes that Aboriginal Peoples face racism and systemic discrimination in and out of the criminal law system, and attempts to deal, with the crisis of over representation /inequities of Aboriginal Peoples in custody, to the extent possible, through changing how judges sentence.

Should Canadian police adopt a similar approach (or recognition) when responding to calls with First Nation suspects to account for mental health, higher than average suicide rates, alcohol and drug use stats?

The Gladue report has created nothing other than a two tiered justice industry. It also smacks of racism - African Canadians, Asian Canadians etc don't get the same treatment.
 
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