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Saluting... just curious

- NCMs salute all officers (officer cadets are usually not saluted because they hold no commission)
- Officers salute other officers of higher rank
- Officers refer to NCMs by rank
- NCMs refer to each other by rank or appointment ie. RSM, CQ etc. (higher or lower)
- NCMs refer to Officers as "Sir" or "Ma‘am"
- Officers may be referred to as "Mr." or "Ms./Miss/Mrs." in the 3rd person, but NCMs are not to be referred to as such.

I think that‘s about it.
 
I think CSMs and RSMs are also referred to as "sir" by lower ranked NCMs.

I think for the Mr/Ms/Mrs business, it‘s only appropriate when referring to OCdts, 2Lts, and (maybe) Lts. Shouldn‘t be calling a major "Mister".
 
CSMs, RSMs and other CWOs can be called Sir, or by their rank, or by their appointment... kind of a multiple choice thing. Some RSMs just HATE being referred to as "Sir" and are quick to correct you.

As for the Mr/Ms/Miss/Mrs thing, yeah you‘re right about junior officers only (we have so few senior officers I often forget that rule).
 
As a former CSM, I can catagorically state that if you wanted to get on my bad side, all you had to do was call me "sir." I worked for a living.

(Yeah I know it‘s an old one but then so am I)
 
I think the point of calling a CSM/RSM "sir" is because they have a warrant from Her Majesty, not because of "working for a living".

I don‘t think insinuations that only NCOs work for their money is constructive nor does it provide a good leadership example.

(And isn‘t it an American saying anyways? Their pay scale is structured such that a 2Lt makes more than a S-Sgt while here a cpl makes more than a 2Lt)
 
- NCMs refer to Officers as "Sir" or "Ma‘am"
Actually, Officially, you should never refer to any female as Ma‘am, for "Ma‘am" is reserved for the Queen, representatives of the queen, and the royal family. Also in some cases, Ministers. In Canada it is officially only appropriate to refer to females, formally, as "Miss". In the United States, Miss is replaced by Ma‘am. Thus, refering to someone as Ma‘am in Canada, could potentially create some confusion, for it could be taken as mockery (Yes your majesty).
 
We seem to have taken our cue from the Americans on this one. The correct form of address for a female officer is "ma‘am" in the Canadian Forces.

The US Navy used to have a regulation that all officers, including female ones, were to be addressed as "sir." Made things easier!
 
If I can remember correctly from my QL2 days, is the correct of address for an officer either "Sir/Ma‘am" or their rank. I am wondering because a lot of officers seem to get a little haughty if you refer to them be their rank, despite it being in the regs.
 
I remember a particularly annoying Captain who called me "Sarge" all the time. From anyone else, it probably wouldn‘t have mattered - when he did it, it got under my skin. I just started calling him "Cap" that seemed to cure it - he went back to "TSM", or Sergeant..... :rage:
 
Infanteer, you know we were taught the same thing on my BMQ last summer, but then got chewed out for calling officers by their rank.

Though it may have been because the one of the people who did it refered to a General by his rank.. when the sect commander was in the room. :)
 
Hmm...I think I may keep a copy of that sheet in my pocket the next time the issue is brought up.
 
I was reading about the "New" Salute and the thread said there wasn't a response in the last 200 days. That's the reason I'm posting this as a new topic. I did a little research and came up with this article which, by itself is a pretty funny expose. Enjoy.

Copyright / Permission to Reproduce

http://www.vac.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/hrp/copyright_notice

This, is a hoot.


Transcript


Donald Stewart Ethell was born in July 1937 and was raised in Victoria, BC. His father was a Veteran of both the First and Second World Wars. His mother was a nurse. He and his sister attended boarding school because of his parents' jobs and he was only home at Christmas and during the summer. His mother passed away when Mr. Ethell was 10 years old.

When he enlisted, Mr. Ethell joined the Queen's Own Rifles in Calgary. After several years of serving as an infantryman he was recommended for the officer training. Mr. Ethell graduated from the program and rose to the rank of Colonel. He went on to command Canadian, and United Nations, forces in various missions all over the world. In the mid 1990s, Col. Ethell retired with over thirty-five years of distinguished service.
Development of Unified Canadian Forces Salute


Our beloved minister, Pallier had pushed the, pushed the envelope saying we need to change the salute, because as you know the navy and the army and the air force all had different salutes, so it was being proposed by the director of training at that time, a full colonel, Radley Walters, he was tasked to come up with a different salute and the two that were, forty-five degree angle or the straight arm. He had to demonstrate this to the Chief of the General Staff, General Jean Victor Allard, who commanded the 4th Division in Germany at one time, British division, with a script. And Macleod called my boss again and said "Ethell looks pretty sharp in a uniform, he's gonna demonstrate this." So I was given a script and Linda would read the script and I would stand in front of the mirror and when it said navy and this and my arm was going up and down like a ping pong ball, leading to the culmination of what do you recommend colonel? And it was the one that they have today. The story doesn't stop there; I've got to tell this story, we at the certain time got the call, remember I'm a sergeant he's a full colonel and he's big, mean, ugly, a very famous army core colonel. He said "Ok, we're gonna go in there and you're gonna just follow my script, got it?" "Yes sir."And the general was sitting there, there was just the three of us in the office, there wasn't even an aid there and went through the script and went like this. And the general said, this was the recommendation, he said "Well Sergeant do you like the recommendation?" I said, " No sir", he says "Why?" and I said "Well I like to see the exposed palm." Because that was what I was brought up on, you're not holding an arm. He says "Oh, alright, well I can't do anything about this, I'm going to have to take it to the defence council, carry on". So I march myself out, well when the colonel came up, and remember this was his recommendation, we, lets put it this way, we had a one sided conversation and the only word, two words I got in at the end of this tirade was "Yes, Sir." Like next time you're asked your opinion don't say anything. Let me leap ahead 3 weeks and we now appear before the defence council, with General Allard all the heads of states, the three stars or whatever, sergeant, I don't know who they were, there was just a whole bunch of people in there and the minister sitting at the end of the table, same script, same reader, same model, going up and down like a ping pong ball and damned if Hellier (sp?) didn't say the same question, pose the same question. "Well Sergeant, do you like it?" and I said "Yes, Sir." Jean Victor Allard who had heard the first answer said in rather blunt terms and in language I won't use here, "Just what did you expect him to say?" As it turned out, that salute that they have today, was accepted as a, on a trial basis for a year and I bet you a months wages that it's technically still on trial, because I don't think they'd ever bring it up again. I don't know, maybe I'm selling them short. That's the story of the salute. :stars:

 
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