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Sept 2023 UKR Vet Recognition Incident (merged from several threads)

T

There's a difference between not being a war criminal and being deemed worthy of being hailed as a hero and given a standing ovation in the HOC.
Exactly, my point is for all those screaming for his arrest and charging with crimes.
 
The Speaker said it was someone from his riding and he extended the invite.

The HoC does not vet (ie background checks etc) who comes into the public galleries. Physical Security screening it’s all that happens. However the speaker has his own gallery which is his privilege. He can also stand and recognize anyone he wants to. His office is not beholden to cabinet or the PMO.

At the end of the day he didn’t do his due diligence in who he decided to invite and recognize. This means a controversial figure got kudos that were not deserved and ignited a very damaging situation not only for the office he holds, Canada and really the world in the context of the conflict against Russia. Very likely diplomatic phones are ringing and people are calling people about it. It also handed Russia a propaganda weapon right into its hands.

He needs to resign or parliament needs to start the process to remove him. This is not a mistake a speaker can ever make.
 
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The Speaker said it was someone from his riding and he extended the invite.

The HoC does not vet (ie background checks etc) who comes into the public galleries. Physical Security screening it’s all that happens. However the speaker has his own gallery which is his privilege. He can also stand and recognize anyone he wants to. His office is not beholden to cabinet or the PMO.

At the end of the day he didn’t do his due diligence in who he decided to invite and recognize. This means a controversial figure got kudos that were not deserved and ignited a very damaging situation not only for the office he holds, Canada and really the world in the context of the conflict against Russia. Very likey diplomatic phones are ringing and people are calling people about it. It also handed Russia a propaganda weapon right into its hands.

He needs to resign or parliament needs to start the process to remove him. This is not a mistake a speaker can ever make.
This is very bad for all the reasons you stated above. How the Speaker can look at this and not resign is beyond my comprehension.

We (Canada) have not been looking very good on the world stage lately. I guess that’s what happens when a government guts its foreign service and thinks politicians and staffers can do diplomacy.
 
This is very bad for all the reasons you stated above. How the Speaker can look at this and not resign is beyond my comprehension.

We (Canada) have not been looking very good on the world stage lately. I guess that’s what happens when a government guts its foreign service and thinks politicians and staffers can do diplomacy.
Trudeau: “Awesome! Now no one is talking about China OR India!”
 
More details.

oh.... that report:
While the commission's final report did state that the numbers were grossly exaggerated, the report also admitted it had not investigated materials kept either in the Soviet Union or Eastern Bloc countries, and that it further had not investigated an addendum list of 109 names provided late in the inquiry. Further still, it was later revealed that the commission withheld evidence and ignored the findings of other war crimes trials, such as the Nuremberg trials.
withhold evidence, don't actually investigate or talk to anyone, ignore actual war crime trial findings.... in other words, give the appearance of doing something but do nothing.

The commission's decision to find the Waffen-SS 14th Galicia Division not guilty of collective war crimes was particularly controversial, as the SS had already been determined to have committed war crimes as an organization at earlier war crimes trials. It is thus difficult to determine whether the commission's conclusion that the number of suspected war criminals who either had or were residing in Canada was in fact exaggerated, given how much potential evidence wasn't considered.
The respective political parties were all trying to grab the Eastern European vote at the time, so the Commission whitewashed anything controversial cuz.... politics.

Typical Canadian trait of make an appearance to do something but do absolutely nothing.

 
It's one thing to have fought in the Wehrmacht or in the Italian Army; it's quite something else to have been a member of the Waffen-SS.
There is more to it than that, as a Ukrainian or Pole, he would have had no choice apart from the SS if he wanted to fight the Soviets. The SS recruited foreign divisions because the Wehrmacht was throttling their recruiting in the fatherland, and funnelling it to the Wehrmacht. There was a power struggle between the two groups, and the army wanted to keep the SS as small as weak as possible.

Mark Felton has an interesting video about the Ukrainian SS volunteers, some of whom turned on the Germans when shifted away from fighting the Soviets.
 
There is more to it than that, as a Ukrainian or Pole, he would have had no choice apart from the SS if he wanted to fight the Soviets. The SS recruited foreign divisions because the Wehrmacht was throttling their recruiting in the fatherland, and funnelling it to the Wehrmacht. There was a power struggle between the two groups, and the army wanted to keep the SS as small as weak as possible.

Mark Felton has an interesting video about the Ukrainian SS volunteers, some of whom turned on the Germans when shifted away from fighting the Soviets.
The German Reich actually played the Slavs off each other for their own benefit.
 
The part to me with this that don't pass the smell test, is the Liberals saying they had no prior knowledge of the speakers plans to honor this man.

I would assume there would have been some sort of schedule of events, at the very least a rough outline of if and mention of any guests invited by any member of parliament. I don't know if such a thing exists but I would assume it must in some form. I worked as an Executive Assistant for a Flag Officer for a awhile when I served and his days were strictly scheduled out, along with information about special honoree's at the event's he attended.

Something like this had to be planned weeks if not months in advance.
 
The part to me with this that don't pass the smell test, is the Liberals saying they had no prior knowledge of the speakers plans to honor this man.

I would assume there would have been some sort of schedule of events, at the very least a rough outline of if and mention of any guests invited by any member of parliament. I don't know if such a thing exists but I would assume it must in some form. I worked as an Executive Assistant for a Flag Officer for a awhile when I served and his days were strictly scheduled out, along with information about special honoree's at the event's he attended.

Something like this had to be planned weeks if not months in advance.
Months? Likely not. Weeks perhaps or at least weeks for only a very limited group of people. A visit like this is normally a lot of last minute scrambling due to the massive security concerns.

I’m only guessing but the schedule could have just said « Speaker’s Remarks: 5 mins »
 
At the end of the day he didn’t do his due diligence in who he decided to invite and recognize. . . .

He needs to resign or parliament needs to start the process to remove him. This is not a mistake a speaker can ever make.

These are the only acceptable courses of action. And should be implemented without delay.
 
The Speaker said it was someone from his riding and he extended the invite.

The HoC does not vet (ie background checks etc) who comes into the public galleries. Physical Security screening it’s all that happens. However the speaker has his own gallery which is his privilege. He can also stand and recognize anyone he wants to. His office is not beholden to cabinet or the PMO.

At the end of the day he didn’t do his due diligence in who he decided to invite and recognize....
This is the bit that drives me nuts; a simple google search immediately shows the division was part of the Waffen SS, that's a really low bar for due diligence. People do more to vet restaurants or car parts.

The fact that these people are overall responsible for important things is probably the worst feature of democracy.

I have no reason to think the guy was a Nazi or did war crimes, but with all the work to support Ukranian refugees at the ground level, really can't believe that was the person they gave a hero's welcome in Parliament.

This especially drives me crazy as I'm in the middle of submitting a travel claim that needed 3 separate approval gates to go to a NATO meeting, and will have several reviews before finalization. The disparity in what we are subjected to IOT do our jobs compared what Parliament does is frustrating, as I don't think my economy train ticket is going to make international news or feed the Russian propaganda machine (but you never know I guess).
 
This is the bit that drives me nuts; a simple google search immediately shows the division was part of the Waffen SS, that's a really low bar for due diligence. People do more to vet restaurants or car parts.

The fact that these people are overall responsible for important things is probably the worst feature of democracy.

I have no reason to think the guy was a Nazi or did war crimes, but with all the work to support Ukranian refugees at the ground level, really can't believe that was the person they gave a hero's welcome in Parliament.

This especially drives me crazy as I'm in the middle of submitting a travel claim that needed 3 separate approval gates to go to a NATO meeting, and will have several reviews before finalization. The disparity in what we are subjected to IOT do our jobs compared what Parliament does is frustrating, as I don't think my economy train ticket is going to make international news or feed the Russian propaganda machine (but you never know I guess).

I would suggest that this conversation needn't even have necessitated a Google search.

Mr. Hunka was known to have fought the Soviets during the Second World War.

Without receiving any further information, the conversation should have ended in that moment.
 
This especially drives me crazy as I'm in the middle of submitting a travel claim that needed 3 separate approval gates to go to a NATO meeting, and will have several reviews before finalization. The disparity in what we are subjected to IOT do our jobs compared what Parliament does is frustrating, as I don't think my economy train ticket is going to make international news or feed the Russian propaganda machine (but you never know I guess).
Parliament is exempt from most if not all of TB guidelines and rules that the most of the federal Public Sector follows.
 
Parliament is exempt from most if not all of TB guidelines and rules that the most of the federal Public Sector follows.
I get that, it's more the upstairs/downstairs nature of things when we are drowning in levels of oversight and approval gates, and they can't be arsed to google someone before introducing them as a hero in parliament to a foreign leader on a dog and pony tour.

It seems like they bundle the Peter principle and the Dunning Kruger effect and then criticise us for trying to jump through their stupid hoops to try and do the job they tell us they want us to do while being active roadblocks.
 
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