Sick Leave ( merged )

[Occam]

Actually, the new system seems to be to state on a printed sick chit that the member has so many days of sick leave.  At least, that's how mine has been handled, which was just given to me only a couple of days ago for what could be considered an extended period.  There is no leave pass filled out or anything.

Is that the new, all-singing, all-dancing MEL form that gets done on every visit to sick parade?  I only saw it a few times before I released last year.  My only stint of extended sick leave predated that form, if it's the one I'm thinking of.

 

[Shamrock]

Well, if this thread is any indication, there is no such thing as CTO.  If Bloggins has to work on a day which is "normally" a day off, then I think the legal and proper (however cumbersome) way to compensate them for it is Short leave, through the CO.  I don't think I ever saw that done once in my 26 years, though...

And there's the rub. The correct method vs the convenient method. We aggressively track our civilians, yet are quite cavalier with our soldiers - because the leave pass itself is considered cumbersome and the leave manual arcane.

It's a risk commanders assume. Give a dude a day off. If something happens, deal with it when it becomes a problem.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Unless something has changed, the unit only does the administration on sick leave up to and including the two days that can be granted by the CO.  If I remember correctly, when I was given two weeks sick leave a few years ago, the orderly room at the hospital completed the CF 100 and the MO signed off on it.

The short answer is: medical personnel should not be signing  leave passes for anyone not in their own CoC.  They can obviously put down whatever number of days they think is useful for treatment puposes on a med chit,  but it s up to he unit to issue the leave pass.  A supervisor, when he sees a med chit for a bunch of days of excused duty is within their rights to call the MIR and discuss the issue, within the limits of medical confidentiality.  Think about it this way: what part of the the NDA confers a medical professional the power to issue leave for someone not in their own unit? It is up to the unit to issue the leave recommended by the MIR. 

 

[Occam]

We aggressively track our civilians

We may be aggressively tracked, but we also have an excellent self-service leave application.  I love being able to fill out my sick/vacation/family-related leave requests with a few mouse clicks.  I'm sure my boss loves that he can approve them just as quickly and easily.  It's a shame that the CF can't adopt something that efficient.

 

[Shamrock]

Yes, there is considerable advantage to the all online system. However, not too handy in a computer austere environment - almost to the point where we'd make computer and Internet access a requirement of service.

There remains value in the archaic pen and paper system we espouse for our administrative system.

 

[Ludoc]

The short answer is: medical personnel should not be signing  leave passes for anyone not in their own CoC.  They can obviously put down whatever number of days they think is useful for treatment puposes on a med chit,  but it s up to he unit to issue the leave pass.  A supervisor, when he sees a med chit for a bunch of days of excused duty is within their rights to call the MIR and discuss the issue, within the limits of medical confidentiality.  Think about it this way: what part of the the NDA confers a medical professional the power to issue leave for someone not in their own unit? It is up to the unit to issue the leave recommended by the MIR.

From the QR&Os:

16.16 - SICK LEAVE

An officer or non-commissioned member may be granted sick leave not exceeding:

    two continuous calendar days by the member's commanding officer without the recommendation of a medical officer;
    30 continuous calendar days, not including any sick leave granted under subparagraph (a), by a medical officer, or a civilian medical doctor designated by the senior medical officer of a base;
    91 continuous calendar days, including any sick leave granted under subparagraphs (a) and (b), by the senior medical officer of a formation; or
    183 continuous calendar days, including any sick leave granted under subparagraphs (a), (b) and (c), by the Surgeon General or a medical officer designated by the Surgeon General.

 

[Strike]

From the QR&Os:

16.16 - SICK LEAVE

An officer or non-commissioned member may be granted sick leave not exceeding:

    two continuous calendar days by the member's commanding officer without the recommendation of a medical officer;
    30 continuous calendar days, not including any sick leave granted under subparagraph (a), by a medical officer, or a civilian medical doctor designated by the senior medical officer of a base;
    91 continuous calendar days, including any sick leave granted under subparagraphs (a) and (b), by the senior medical officer of a formation; or
    183 continuous calendar days, including any sick leave granted under subparagraphs (a), (b) and (c), by the Surgeon General or a medical officer designated by the Surgeon General.

And what does it say about filling out a leave pass?  Does the CF leave manual say anything?  I am sans DWAN for the next year.

Not that I care of course.  My CoC is well aware that I'm on sick leave and why and I have a chit.  I just figure someone is going to ask if the regs say anything about a leave pass. 

 

[Occam]

CF Leave Manual is available at http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/pd/lea-con/cflpm-mprcfc-eng.asp

It does say:

Section 2.1 Leave Request/Authorization Form
2.1.01 CF 100

Leave authorizations are documented on form CF100, Canadian Forces Leave Request/Authorization. This form is the source record for recording leave into the Human Resource Management (HRMS), HR application.
2.1.02 Leave transactions

All leave transactions listed below are designated for control and shall be recorded in the HRMS leave module:

    Amendments to leave;
    Annual leave transactions;
    Cancellation of leave;
    Cash out of leave;
    Compassionate Leave;
    Expenditures against accumulated and accrued leave;
    Leave Without Pay;
    Period of Limitation of Payments;
    Rehabilitation leave;
    Short Leave;
    Sick Leave; and
    Special Leave (all applications).


So, by the letter of the "CF Leave Manual" law, even the newfangled form that the MIR is using should be accompanied by a CF 100 when sick leave is authorized beyond what the CO can grant.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I'm going to eat crow about the leave authority.  Good links.

However, I will still contend that it is not up to the MIR to create and issue a CF 100 leave form and enter the info into HRMS- only the unit can or should do that, if only to prove that the unit has dragged on board the information provided by the medical authority.

 

[392]

Here is Gagetown, the MIR creates and signs the leave pass, and then forwards it to the applicable unit's Adj - at least that's what happened this year when two of my NCOs went in to get snipped and were given sick leave for the first couple days. Could be different elsewhere?

 

[SupersonicMax]

As far as CTOs go....

CF Leave Manual

1.1.18 Shift worker

A shift worker is a person who does not necessarily have a working day schedule of Monday to Friday with Saturday, Sunday and designated and/or statutory holidays scheduled as non-working days.

For a shift worker, weekend time off is the scheduled non-working days, regardless of the day of the week on which they are scheduled, and working days are the days in a week scheduled for work, regardless of the days of the week on which they are scheduled.

Yes, if you are someone that doesn't have a regular schedule, you are entitled to CTOs on any day of the week when you work on week ends and you do not need a leave pass or "special leave" from the CO to do so...

 

[dapaterson]

And there's the rub. The correct method vs the convenient method. We aggressively track our civilians, yet are quite cavalier with our soldiers - because the leave pass itself is considered cumbersome and the leave manual arcane.

It's a risk commanders assume. Give a dude a day off. If something happens, deal with it when it becomes a problem.

It's more than that - at higher levels, it prevents commanders from getting a decent picture.  Information entered into systems isn't just about individual records; it's about information visibility.

Yes, there is considerable advantage to the all online system. However, not too handy in a computer austere environment - almost to the point where we'd make computer and Internet access a requirement of service.

There remains value in the archaic pen and paper system we espouse for our administrative system.

I can't think of any routine garrison situations - where sick leave would be the largest issue - that lacks decent computer access.  And a well-designed system will permit batch uploads of information after the fact for those deployed to austere locations.

 

[dapaterson]

As far as CTOs go....

CF Leave Manual

Yes, if you are someone that doesn't have a regular schedule, you are entitled to CTOs on any day of the week when you work on week ends and you do not need a leave pass or "special leave" from the CO to do so...

No.  CTO does not exist.

If you work shift, and work extra time, your CO may elect to give you shifts off you'd otherwise be working.  Giving that time off is known as "leave".


Let's suppose you normally work Wednesday through Sunday, 16h00-2400.  A situation arises and you're called in Monday and Tuesday 08h00-16h00.  Your boss has two options:

(a) Have you work your normal shifts; or

(b) Grant you time off your normal shifts.  Time off is leave.


The only situation I can think of that would differ is someone on an irregular shift pattern, called in for extra work, and the CO then orders the duty roster changed to give that person time off because they worked additional.  That might not be seen as leave; but in the "I worked extra days.  Woe is me I deserve more time off." situation it is definitely a CO who may elect to grant short leave.

 

[SupersonicMax]

No.  CTO does not exist.

I know that per se, CTOs don't exist. However, time off given for working extra days is still call this way.  But you are right, CTOs do not exist per se.

It's not always as Black & White as you make it look like.  Take a pilot on a squadron that has alert duties.  He normally works Monday through Friday, but sometimes, on week ends, he has to hold the alert.  That pilot is given a day off (we call it CTO, and even our CO and Wing Commander) at his convenience.  For scheduling purposes, we try to take that day off within 2 weeks.  But it's not always possible.

We don't work with "roster" and the CO doesn't order schedule changes for the individual, rather it's up to the individual to take that time off.  And no leave pass is required, as it is considered a week end. 

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Really? Are we still beating this dead horse..........  :deadhorse:

 

[Shamrock]

Dapeterson:

Combat arms have no dedicated stand-alone units for general use. Some units have repurposed a system or two, but they are typically quite busy. Can we have a reasonable expectation of all our soldiers to have quick access to a computer at all times? Should we have the expectation they own one and have INet acces so they can type in sick?

I'm not discounting the value of system used for the civvies. However, the CFs paperless transition has not been flawless. Many a troop doesn't maximize EMAA, many a leader doesn't maximize Monitor Mass, an many is the soul who has no clue of DFC and Publications to name a few essential resources.

Until we have an in-place training system that teaches leaders and subordinates how to maximize ther resources, I feel our time, money, and resources would be better invested in bringing back pips and executive curls. Otherwise, all that will happen will be a vague oporder telling us to transition to some new system and a smug sense of accomplishment behind an introducing chaos PER bubble.

 

[garb811]

I know that per se, CTOs don't exist. However, time off given for working extra days is still call this way.  But you are right, CTOs do not exist per se.

It's not always as Black & White as you make it look like.  Take a pilot on a squadron that has alert duties.  He normally works Monday through Friday, but sometimes, on week ends, he has to hold the alert.  That pilot is given a day off (we call it CTO, and even our CO and Wing Commander) at his convenience.  For scheduling purposes, we try to take that day off within 2 weeks.  But it's not always possible.

We don't work with "roster" and the CO doesn't order schedule changes for the individual, rather it's up to the individual to take that time off.  And no leave pass is required, as it is considered a week end.

What you're describing is NOT shift work, it is called standing a duty, just like what happens at Units and Bases across the CF on a daily basis.  Shift work happens when your normal schedule does not follow the standard Mon-Fri as the standard, not the exception, such as what happens with MP, Fire Fighters, Watch Keepers in Op Centres etc.  What you are getting should be accounted for via a Short Leave day and not doing that is, in fact, illegal.

 

[aesop081]

  What you are getting should be accounted for via a Short Leave day and not doing that is, in fact, illegal.

Nope. I am in a similar situation as Max and the number of days exceeds the number of short days the CO can dish out.

Believe it or not, the CF leave manual has some serious deficiencies.

 

[smale436]

    Us groundcrew in the Fighter world have been experiencing this as well for many years. This past August I was told, after working Monday thru Friday, that they desperately needed people to work at a charity event that took place on the base over the weekend and people would be voluntold if they found no takers. (I had nothing going on so figured why not?) Those were 12 hour days and we received two short days as a result. I also worked on a weekend (in the same month) after a 5 day work week to deal with QRA stuff. Thus I received what we still call, as Supersonic Max called them, two CTO's. However the leave pass through Monitor Mass said "Shift worker" in the leave type and I had the following Monday and Tuesday off after working the weekend in question.

 

[Good2Golf]

Point being, there is no longer any such thing as compensatory time off in the CF leave lexicon. 

If a member is directed by their CoC to work a day that was otherwise not within their regular work schedule, the member's work schedule can be adjusted subsequently to account for the additional duty being assigned outside of the regular schedule ("your Monday duty was moved to this Saturday past, so return to regular duty on Tuesday").  If the member is directed to otherwise continue with their regular work schedule, the only other appropriate option is to issue the member a day of Short Leave as authorized by, or delegated by the CO.

:2c:

Regards
G2G