Sig Op QL3 Cease of Training Rumour???

[SigOp_Geek]

I don't think we'll see them making SigOps out of Linemen (for example) to pad up the current number of SigOps.

BUT once this amalgamation starts, units will be able to take their new QL3 graduates and place them into SignalsTrade sub-trades as needed (for example:  unit needs 5 SigOps, 10 QL3 grads arrive and the UNIT DECIDES 5 will start out as SigOps, 3 as Techs, and 2 as Linemen).  Keep in mind that the PLAN is to rotate those 10 through the 3 different sub-trades so that students get the broadest experience possible, and the UNIT can see who fits better into which sub-trade. 

As for spec-pay - it is ALL RUMOUR and HERESAY - (from the same o-grp I mentioned previously) the expectation is that it will be granted to the new SignalsTrade.

 

[Scothern]

As for spec-pay - it is ALL RUMOUR and HERESAY - (from the same o-grp I mentioned previously) the expectation is that it will be granted to the new SignalsTrade.

I just want to know what it means for the damned spec pay... Grin

etc..

A recent LCIS QL5A course that finished in March was told that LCIS will lose spec spay, and that pay would be frozen for us that do recieve it.  Take it with a grain of salt but that's another rumor for you.

 

[Old and Tired]

With everything else that has gone on before in the Sigs world, I'm not supprised that this has been proposed and is going to be implemented.  I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing right now.

Something has to be done at a more basic level for the Sig Op trade however.  We are holding on to standards that were established when the old model 19 teletype was in fashion in the Wallis building.  My last experience teaching in Kingston was eye opening on how far we have fallen.  We can't train people that can function without a fair amount of OJT once they hit a unit as it is, now we are going to try and train them in three trades at once.

As it is right now I would rather have a group of motivated ATCIS qualified infanteers or crewman to operate a CP that any of the current batch of QL3 Sig Ops (Reg or Res) that I see coming out of CFSCE.

Time will tell I guess.

 

[PuckChaser]

Old training and rapidly falling training standards are really hurting us.

In '03 Apprentice students needed to have the Vixam up all 8 sections during the detachment setup PO. In 06 when I instructed on a Mercury Storm, I had to pass students that could barely get the thing to 2 sections with slack guy ropes, as that was the new standard for the setup.

 

[Sig_Des]

In '03 Apprentice students needed to have the Vixam up all 8 sections during the detachment setup PO.

I remember having 30 minutes to do this individually - plenty of time.

Now, I'm hearing they have an hour. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Old and Tired]

For the course that I put through in the summer of 06 the standard we were directed to follow was full assembled, no time limit.  Full CP setup with Cam etc was 1:45, with time added if it got too hot.  This I can understand as the summer of 06 was one of the warmer ones on record.  Forcing troops to drink water was difficult at times.  I think some of my students thought I was nuts making them drink as much as did.  None one down due to heat injuries though so I think they finally saw my point of view.

It's not whats taught and how, but the level of detail and competence that has declined in an effort to push through the numbers.  I was told point blank that no one was to fail the course. PERIOD.  They would get however many chances to pass as it took to get them by.

 

[PuckChaser]

It's not whats taught and how, but the level of detail and competence that has declined in an effort to push through the numbers.  I was told point blank that no one was to fail the course. PERIOD.  They would get however many chances to pass as it took to get them by.

I will completely concur with that. My assessments include troops that had A. Not yet passed the Vixam PO (req for Apprentice to go to the field ex), and B. Unable to follow simple VP instructions on their field assessment. We failed one journeyman student after a Standards Sgt got involved and realized this troop couldn't lead a det out of a wet paper bag. We nicknamed Mercury Storm that year as Exercise Max Pass.

We are at a shortage of SigOps, but are we short enough to continue to pass the bottom third with ease?

 

[Old and Tired]

I will say that the blame can be split evenly between all parties concerned.  The SYSTEM for not keeping up with the times.  From what I have observed, granted this is only one persons view, no one seems to listen to or read the End Course Reports that the course staff compile for standards.  The staff for any given course shoulder a large portion of the responsibility as well.  We, collectively, don't seem to demand the level or performance that the students are capable of.  They are no better or worse than I was when I went through CFSCE.  The students are partly to blame as well.

I can not see how combining three such diverse trades as Sig Op, LCIS Tech, and Lineman will make this situation any better.  Something will have to suffer.  I can see us getting more time or resources to accomplish the training, beyond what we have.The way we deliver the training certainly won't change anytime soon.  I have an uneasy feeling that all three of these trades will suffer.

Maybe some one is also watching what the Airforce is up to with their amalgamated trades

 

[EW]

...I can not see how combining three such diverse trades as Sig Op, LCIS Tech, and Lineman will make this situation any better.  Something will have to suffer.....

While I'm sure that someone sees this as a wise move to make better use of training resources and staffing at the units, I have to wonder if some of the motivation is not related to recruiting issues.  Do LCIS and Lineman meet their recruiting gaps?  If so, than perhaps the over riding draw is to make the trade(s) more attractive at the recruiting office.

 

[meni0n]

But would people actually sign up just to have a "chance" to get into trade they want? What if someone wants to be LCIS and they assign him as Sig, he wouldn't resigning his next contract thats for sure.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Maybe some one is also watching what the Airforce is up to with their amalgamated trades

I haven't heard anyone say they think the Air Force C & E world is better off since the amalgamation of rad tech, radar tech etc.  The Navy also tried this with the NET MOCs and after it didn't work, they atleast had the balls to go back to the old way of 3 MOCs for NET.

Personally, I don't know all the reasoning behind this but I was also wondering "what about the people who want to be LCIS and have no interest in what Sig Ops do?  I think that will help the ATIS MOC alot!  ;D

 

[aesop081]

Maybe some one is also watching what the Airforce is up to with their amalgamated trades

Working on taking them apart again is what the AF is up to.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Working on taking them apart again is what the AF is up to.

And as an ATIS Tech, I think they should.  What we have now is a MOC of "a jack of all trades, and master of none" situation.  A tech can spend 4 years on say, quad radar, and then his next posting end up in an IT section with no clue, or vice versa.  Personally I think its messed up.  As I said, atleast the Navy recognized this amalgamation as a failure and reversed course.

 

[JBP]

I can't help but think this is a stupid move even as a newly trained Sig Op who is in an "IT" position. Forget the other trades that will be sucked into this even (Lineman, LCIS) but just even with the Sig Ops alone, 3 different troops we have in 1 CMBG HQ+Sigs and each troop does a completely different job and 90% of the Sigs from 1 troop won't really know how to do the other troops' job! So now we're going to mess it up even more... Sig Ops already have this problem where it's a jack of all trades type of trade, and this will dillute our skillset and flood our knowledge base so we really won't be a master of anything I think. Unless they do simply just stick us in 1 spot for our career and let us progress through that route. If that's the case then there's not much of a point for amalgamation except to increase our pay, and we don't even know if that would even happen!

So, pile on the work and mess I suppose....

 

[Canadian Sig]

I was told by a high ranking Jimmy yesterday that the Op side of the house will become 2 different jobs. IT will become its own animal and operators will revert back to something like Rad Ops. So at the end of your first 4 years you will cease to be a "Communications and Informations System Technician" and will apply to be either LCIS, Line, IT, or Op. You get aptitude tested and recomended for one of those paths. What happens if you dont get the path you wanted? No idea. Guess we'll wait and see.

 

[Sigger]

I was told by a high ranking Jimmy yesterday that the Op side of the house will become 2 different jobs. IT will become its own animal and operators will revert back to something like Rad Ops. So at the end of your first 4 years you will cease to be a "Communications and Informations System Technician" and will apply to be either LCIS, Line, IT, or Op. You get aptitude tested and recomended for one of those paths. What happens if you dont get the path you wanted? No idea. Guess we'll wait and see.

I, for one, think that to be a good idea. I can only see myself being in IT,  a few years moved to RCR as the signaler. Vp not to mention operation may just be a little rusty.

 

[meni0n]

I was told by a high ranking Jimmy yesterday that the Op side of the house will become 2 different jobs. IT will become its own animal and operators will revert back to something like Rad Ops. So at the end of your first 4 years you will cease to be a "Communications and Informations System Technician" and will apply to be either LCIS, Line, IT, or Op. You get aptitude tested and recomended for one of those paths. What happens if you dont get the path you wanted? No idea. Guess we'll wait and see.

What about the people already in the trade? Will they be given a choice or only the new guys?

 

[Sig_Des]

What about the people already in the trade? Will they be given a choice or only the new guys?

Word on the rumour street that I'm hearing is, QL5 qualified will be grandfathered, however, with this new process, should someone wish to switch, it'll be easier.

 

[aphadon]

My question about this is - what about the requirements for this new trade? LCIS requires different things than Sig Ops in terms of education (former I don't qualify for in that respect, latter I do.) Would then I be disqualified from the trade entirely because I don't meet the requirements for one?

 

[Sigger]

Has anyone heard any more on this?