Single Quarters & Rations (R&Q) [MERGED]

[Fishbone Jones]

Yep. Heckuva deal.

Personal experience?

 

[chris_log]

Personal experience?

REALLY?

Yes, personal experience. A reservist who transfers into ROTP gets paid the Reg F equivalent of their previous rank. I get Pte (B). I know a couple Cpl's and a MCpl who went the ROTP route and lived it up on $40 000+ a year while going to school.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Because you walked in off the street unqualified to find your own arsehole with two hands, a flashlight and a map.  Those guys got to live it up, because they earned it, having already been through the training system once, becoming qualified in a trade, and worked in that trade obviously well enough to be recommended for Rupert School.

 

[chris_log]

Because you walked in off the street unqualified to find your own arsehole with two hands, a flashlight and a map.  Those guys got to live it up, because they earned it, having already been through the training system once, becoming qualified in a trade, and worked in that trade obviously well enough to be recommended for Rupert School.

Eh?

And you don't get recommended for ROTP, you apply.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

REALLY?

Yes, personal experience. A reservist who transfers into ROTP gets paid the Reg F equivalent of their previous rank. I get Pte (B). I know a couple Cpl's and a MCpl who went the ROTP route and lived it up on $40 000+ a year while going to school.

Geez, there you go again. I just wanted to know if that's the way you went through university. If you used reserve time and rank for tuition. You're stressing bud.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Eh?

And you don't get recommended for ROTP, you apply.

Fair enough, point to you.  However, every other commissioning program requires COs approval, don't they?

 

[chris_log]

Fair enough, point to you.  However, every other commissioning program requires COs approval, don't they?

Yes. But the poster was asking about ROTP. ROTP is a different beast then say the CFR program.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Fair enough.  Regardless, those guys are being paid for prior military service, which they earned.  That's the last thing I'm going to say on the topic, so feel free to talk among yourselves.

 

[armyvern]

Then, I am sure a lot of RMC Cadets would have love to join this forum and explain the other "benefits" of being at RMC. Probably followed by summary trials like:
Guilty of S. 129 of the NDA: Conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline, in that <the cadet who I should not name> failed to comply with:
QR&O 19.14 - IMPROPER COMMENTS;
QR&O 19.36 - DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION OR OPINION;
QR&O 19.37 - PERMISSION TO COMMUNICATE INFORMATION;
DOAD 2008-2 - ACCOUNTABILITY AND RSPONSABILITY FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS;
DOAD 2008-6 - INTERNET PUBLISHING; and
CANFORGENS 136-06- GUIDANCE ON BLOGS AND OTHER INTERNET COMMUNICATIONS - CF OPERATIONS AND ACTIVITIES

Sorry about the random copy&paste of a summary trial result. People get charged here a lot and I keep a archive of the emails they send out.

Very lovely & selective "copy & paste" of (internet & comms related  ) charges you've archived the emails for and reproduced for us here. (We do provide the link and copy & paste of the CANFORGEN regarding internet postings right here on the site).

Surely, being at RMC, you've also archived some on Insubordination? Drunkenness? AWOA? Do you archive those ones too?

I just find your choice of ones to "copy & paste" rather selective - almost like they're supposed to be taken as a hint about something you've left unsaid in your post; it could, perhaps, be just me.

Surprise!! We get to enjoy those "charge" benefits out here too!! Yes, I speak from 'hands-on' experience regarding this matter.  8)

 

[George Wallace]

Wow, I did not expect that many replies when I posted my questions. I thought no one would notice this old thread. Thank you for your opinions and comments. I guess my last message might have sounded a little bit like a complaint. I would like to state that I am not here to ask for your respect or sympathy. Respect, I will earn when I get to my unit. Sympathy, I simply don't need because every cadet here(or ex-cadet) understand what it takes to go to RMC(which a Civi U ROTP would never understand). my colleagues and I were faced with an issue. That was why I decided to join this forum and ask:

Can any body explain to me who I can talk to about rations? Does any body know a link that can explain the ration increase? What are the guide lines for making the rates for officer cadets?(ie. the annual budget)

I was hoping to gather enough information in order to present a proposal to the Chain of Command, which can rectify the issue. Thank you

On a side note(to break the tension) Like Mr Strike said,"if this is going to turn into a pissing contest between ROTP and Civvie U might I suggest you take it to another thread." Then, I am sure a lot of RMC Cadets would have love to join this forum and explain the other "benefits" of being at RMC. Probably followed by summary trials like:
Guilty of S. 129 of the NDA: Conduct to the prejudice of good order and discipline, in that <the cadet who I should not name> failed to comply with:
QR&O 19.14 - IMPROPER COMMENTS;
QR&O 19.36 - DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION OR OPINION;
QR&O 19.37 - PERMISSION TO COMMUNICATE INFORMATION;
DOAD 2008-2 - ACCOUNTABILITY AND RSPONSABILITY FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS;
DOAD 2008-6 - INTERNET PUBLISHING; and
CANFORGENS 136-06- GUIDANCE ON BLOGS AND OTHER INTERNET COMMUNICATIONS - CF OPERATIONS AND ACTIVITIES

Sorry about the random copy&paste of a summary trial result. People get charged here a lot and I keep a archive of the emails they send out.

If you know the answers to my questions, your help would be greatly appreciated. thank you

I guess you never thought of the fact that resurrecting an old thread brings it to the top of the Posting Lists.  Oh well.  I see you will be facing some difficult times in your ignorance of the military, but I am sure with time you may learn, and then maybe not.  As I have posted earlier; have you even taken the time to do a COST COMPARISON (Been doing too many Claims X lately) to see what you would be paying outside of ROTP if you were a civilian and not enjoying the benefits of a DND funded education?  Have you eaten in any Cafeteria style dining facility before?  Do you seriously think the Mess in RMC is that much different from any other CF Mess?  Go up the hill and see if the food in the VIMY Mess is any better and the doors open any longer.

You have (hopefully) read the comments of others who have attended Civilian Universities on their own dime.  I can assure you that your problems are very minor.  You are not going to leave University with a 60K debt, but rather that much in wages.  Your current piddly hardship is frackin minor in the theme of things.  Get over yourself and your whining.  Others in the CF are facing the same increases, and they are in some cases worse off than you.

As for answers; well you are a student in a higher place of learning who should know how to research.  You have shown us your abilities to dig up the Regs on matters to back up your punishments--how about you put your research skills to work to look up the appropriate Pay Scales, Regulations governing Rations and Quarters, etc.  They are all in QR&Os, CFAOs, DOADs, etc.

If you are still unhappy, then please feel free to Release and pay for your own education on your own dime.

 

[Towards_the_gap]

Can any body explain to me who I can talk to about rations? Does any body know a link that can explain the ration increase? What are the guide lines for making the rates for officer cadets?(ie. the annual budget)

I was hoping to gather enough information in order to present a proposal to the Chain of Command, which can rectify the issue. Thank you

Seriously, what on earth do you propose to do?  You do realise that ration increases are not a case of some manager somewhere in the DND padding out his pension fund, but may actually be necessitated due to inflation, and the changing cost of purchasing food from the local economy? And it is simply unfortunate that your wages have not caught up yet.

But trust me, we all are feeling for you. We really are.

 

[OldSolduer]

Back in the early 80's, I received incentive pay. It was an increase of $21 per month. R&Q was raised that month by $21. I lost money due to higher taxes. Just a thought.

 

[dubyarrr]

Look at the numbers, living in shacks at RMC  $493 for Rations, $196 for Quarters = $689/month R&Q for two cadets 689*2= $1378
Living in PMQ or in Kingston as stated above $325/month PMQ, can get similar rates in town if you share with a couple friends. Food for two is around 250$/month as told by cadets who currently live out of res. 325*2+250= $900

So almost $500 more to live in shacks than out.

Then, consider quality of life, which is better, a 3 bedroom apartment in PMQ's with another person of your choosing, or an 8X10 with a  room-mate who is assigned? You can also put up whatever posters you want if you live at home, instead of the RMC rule of no more than 3, and no pictures of attractive women. You can have a beer in your fridge, at RMC you can't have a fridge (though the rules keep changing on this) and certainly no beer.

Food quality, the RMC mess is far from delicious, most lunch breaks begin with, "ugh, lunch" and supper is occasionally (once every two weeks maybe) nearly impossible to stomach. To answer the earlier poster, yes, the VIMY mess is MUCH better. I have eaten there a few times and the food quality is better, there are more choices, and the staff are friendly and helpful. The RMC mess staff will not allow you to make certain combinations of options. For example, you can only have gravy on your mashed potatoes if you got the beef, or you can only get the breadstick if you have chili.

Yes, living "out" you do have to cook. But, you don't have inspections, door standards or other bull to waste your time on.

And to counter another previous poster, no, the mess no longer leaves out any snacks or juice at all outside the regular hours, there was an attempt at a night-time snack last year, but that again cost extra, and was voted down by cadets because in the trial period, we could have got more and better snack food at a grocery store for the extra $/month

Kevin

P.S. I am not trying to say RMC cadets have it hard, or that I'm ungrateful etc... Just pointing out the extreme inequalities between living in shacks and out, and providing more info as per previous posts.

 

[George Wallace]

I do not consider living in the PMQs as "Living Out".  Depending on the 'Administration' living in the PMQs could be considered the same as troops who live in ESQs, and subject to inspections.  Living in the PMQs also is dependent on availability, as the priority will be for married Service Members.  I consider "Living Out" to be living "on the Economy" (ie. Downtown) and I really doubt anyone will find a decent place to live that would be comparable to what you figure you want to pay.

As for what you have to pay for Rations, this is calculated by the bean counters on the numbers on Ration Strength, and how much must be prepared in advance for each meal.  If there are 400 on Ration Strength then they will prepare meals for 400, whether or not 400 show up to eat.  This has to be done.  They do not have the individual luxuries that persons like SuperSonicMax have in food preparation for a "known quantity of one or two".  Your expenses cover the waste created by members not eating meals that were prepared for them.  There are other reasons for the costs of Rations, but I'll leave that to someone who wants to conduct a long discussion with a Food Services Officer.

So in the end, I'll leave it as: your complaints are just whining, if you do not look into how the Food Services are administered and understand the reasoning for and scale of costs involved.

 

[PMedMoe]

no pictures of attractive women.

Can you put up pictures of unattractive ones?  ;D

 

[40below]

Food quality, the RMC mess is far from delicious, most lunch breaks begin with, "ugh, lunch" and supper is occasionally (once every two weeks maybe) nearly impossible to stomach. To answer the earlier poster, yes, the VIMY mess is MUCH better. I have eaten there a few times and the food quality is better, there are more choices, and the staff are friendly and helpful. The RMC mess staff will not allow you to make certain combinations of options. For example, you can only have gravy on your mashed potatoes if you got the beef, or you can only get the breadstick if you have chili.

Next you'll be complaining about having to wear the same clothes as everyone else too, or get up early. RMC food is no worse than the swill dished out at Queen's, and way better than what you get at KAF.

For what it's worth, you should eat at the senior staff mess – I've yet to have a bad meal there and the beer is reliably cold and copious.

 

[dubyarrr]

I do not consider living in the PMQs as "Living Out".  Depending on the 'Administration' living in the PMQs could be considered the same as troops who live in ESQs, and subject to inspections.  Living in the PMQs also is dependent on availability, as the priority will be for married Service Members.  I consider "Living Out" to be living "on the Economy" (ie. Downtown) and I really doubt anyone will find a decent place to live that would be comparable to what you figure you want to pay.

I'm not debating that PMQ's are "living out", the terminology used makes no difference to me. The point I was attempting to make was the discrepancies in both cost and quality of life.  As for prices of living "on the Economy" a fourth year friend of mine splits a three bedroom duplex with a couple friends and pays $300/month rent. That seems comparable to the PMQ's available on base.

Availability of PMQ's, well, I'm getting married next year and have looked into this. When I contacted base housing there was no shortage of PMQ's. I understand that if every OCdt wanted to move up on base there wouldn't be space, and I'm not saying we should be allowed to, just pointing out the discrepancies.

As for what you have to pay for Rations, this is calculated by the bean counters on the numbers on Ration Strength, and how much must be prepared in advance for each meal.  If there are 400 on Ration Strength then they will prepare meals for 400, whether or not 400 show up to eat.  This has to be done.  They do not have the individual luxuries that persons like SuperSonicMax have in food preparation for a "known quantity of one or two".  Your expenses cover the waste created by members not eating meals that were prepared for them.  There are other reasons for the costs of Rations, but I'll leave that to someone who wants to conduct a long discussion with a Food Services Officer.

I agree.

So in the end, I'll leave it as: your complaints are just whining, if you do not look into how the Food Services are administered and understand the reasoning for and scale of costs involved.

I believe this was the point of livingthedream's original post, trying to find out how to get this information, who do we go to, ask questions of? How does this compare to other CF messes as far as rations costs go, especially considering that a private with the same time in as me makes 214% of what I do.

As a side note, we have been eating off styrofoam plates and cups with plastic utensils for a month now. Is the money for all that styrofoam coming from our rations $$$?

Kevin

 

[Nfld Sapper]

I'm not debating that PMQ's are "living out", the terminology used makes no difference to me. The point I was attempting to make was the discrepancies in both cost and quality of life.  As for prices of living "on the Economy" a fourth year friend of mine splits a three bedroom duplex with a couple friends and pays $300/month rent. That seems comparable to the PMQ's available on base.

Availability of PMQ's, well, I'm getting married next year and have looked into this. When I contacted base housing there was no shortage of PMQ's. I understand that if every OCdt wanted to move up on base there wouldn't be space, and I'm not saying we should be allowed to, just pointing out the discrepancies.

I agree.


I believe this was the point of livingthedream's original post, trying to find out how to get this information, who do we go to, ask questions of? How does this compare to other CF messes as far as rations costs go, especially considering that a private with the same time in as me makes 214% of what I do.

As a side note, we have been eating off styrofoam plates and cups with plastic utensils for a month now. Is the money for all that styrofoam coming from our rations $$$?

Kevin

As a side note I would hazard a guess and say that the Q's priorities would go to those actually posted to CFB KINGSTON vs RMC Students.

 

[dubyarrr]

For what it's worth, you should eat at the senior staff mess – I've yet to have a bad meal there and the beer is reliably cold and copious.

I would love to, unfortunately we are not allowed except for mess dinners. From the occasions I have been there, I agree, our staff do live high on the hog.

As a side note I would hazard a guess and say that the Q's priorities would go to those actually posted to CFB KINGSTON vs RMC Students.

I'm sure they do, though the PMQ's are far from full, so that is irrelevant.

Kevin

 

[observor 69]

Jeez dubyarr now I get it, you're jealous of the Queen's students living in the Ghetto.

Go Gaels Go !

http://www.gogaelsgo.com/sports/2008/9/20/CHEER_0920084734.aspx?tab=cheerleading&path=cheer