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Sleeves up in Cadpat

Gunplumber

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Does anyone have an official document of where it says that sleeves can not be worn up? I assumed that on the new type it just wasnt possible but I still have some of the old ones and like them in the summer as I can roll up the sleeves. Now I am being told that I cant but no one has any proof of it?

Colin
 

BDTyre

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I don't have a reference but I often see those with old-style tunics rolling their sleeves up come May. Unless the RSM says otherwise.
In the field, that is a different story...sleeves down as the tunic is part of your PPE.
 

MilEME09

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Gunplumber said:
Does anyone have an official document of where it says that sleeves can not be worn up? I assumed that on the new type it just wasnt possible but I still have some of the old ones and like them in the summer as I can roll up the sleeves. Now I am being told that I cant but no one has any proof of it?

Colin

It's because the new style uniforms can't fold to the correct height because of the velcro patches. If you went below the velcro patches the roll would be below the elbow, which would look horrible. If you have the old style uniform then it depends on your chain of command. Most say will say no for the sake of uniformity.
 

cld617

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Good luck finding a national ref. The AG-001 is too concerned with the uniforms a handful of us only put on a few times a year to go into specifics about the service dress.
 

PPCLI Guy

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I have heard that people who work at CJOC (who wear CADPAT every day) have been told that if they want short sleeves, they are welcome to wear 3B......and that a few LCols who disregarded an intervention from a CWO got a visit from a BGen channeling Terry Tate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94
 

dimsum

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PPCLI Guy said:
I have heard that people who work at CJOC (who wear CADPAT every day) have been told that if they want short sleeves, they are welcome to wear 3B......and that a few LCols who disregarded an intervention from a CWO got a visit from a BGen channeling Terry Tate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94

You could sell tickets for said LCols getting a flying bodycheck by a BGen.  Morale (and maybe bodies) would go through the roof in minutes. 
 

cld617

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PPCLI Guy said:
I have heard that people who work at CJOC (who wear CADPAT every day) have been told that if they want short sleeves, they are welcome to wear 3B......and that a few LCols who disregarded an intervention from a CWO got a visit from a BGen channeling Terry Tate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94

Now if only that same direction trickled its way up to half-roll Vance and Rouleau.
 

Haggis

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PPCLI Guy said:
......and that a few LCols who disregarded an intervention from a CWO got a visit from a BGen channeling Terry Tate

I wonder who that BGen could be......?
 

OldSolduer

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PPCLI Guy said:
I have heard that people who work at CJOC (who wear CADPAT every day) have been told that if they want short sleeves, they are welcome to wear 3B......and that a few LCols who disregarded an intervention from a CWO got a visit from a BGen channeling Terry Tate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94

My rule was sleeves down no matter what the season.
 

Zoomie

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Sleeves rolled up or down, members choice while in office setting.  This was released decades ago via some sort of direction (official or otherwise).  Sleeves don’t roll up on zoom suits, so I guess I’m just happy with the two way zipper.
 

dimsum

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Ditch said:
Sleeves rolled up or down, members choice while in office setting.  This was released decades ago via some sort of direction (official or otherwise).  Sleeves don’t roll up on zoom suits, so I guess I’m just happy with the two way zipper.

Or 2-piece flight suit  :nod:
 

Nfld Sapper

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There was a change to CH6 of the dress manual date 10 December 2018 for the Army. DIN LINK: http://acims.mil.ca/org/armyg1/sitepages/dress_and_ceremonial.aspx

In NO. 5A Operational Dress (Field)

Para 24 Shirt sleeves shall not be rolled-up but kept extended to the cuff and buttons/Velcro shall be fastened at the wrist level.

NO. 5B Operational Dress (Garrison)

Para 34 Shirt sleeves shall not be rolled-up but kept extended to the cuff and buttons/Velcro shall be fastened at the wrist level.

So gone are the days of the army "roll up sleeves" club.

 

gcclarke

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cld617 said:
If dress of the day is service dress, why should mbrs be required to wear something above that to be comfortable? Roadblock for the sake of it.

More to the point, if dress of the day is service dress, members aren't actually authorized to wear something "above" that to be comfortable. That's the point of dress of the day, isn't it? To mandate what the member is required to be wearing on a daily basis?

Anyways, this whole entire "no rolling sleeves at all" thing to me seems to be a decision that is just emblematic of what I consider to be the worst traits of the Army. Valuing appearances and conformity over everything else, and not giving a hoot about the comfort or well being of the people under your command. I just feel sorry for the Air Force folks who got wrapped up in this shit just because the rules for wearing CADPAT got delegated down to the commander of the Army.
 

Remius

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gcclarke said:
More to the point, if dress of the day is service dress, members aren't actually authorized to wear something "above" that to be comfortable. That's the point of dress of the day, isn't it? To mandate what the member is required to be wearing on a daily basis?

Anyways, this whole entire "no rolling sleeves at all" thing to me seems to be a decision that is just emblematic of what I consider to be the worst traits of the Army. Valuing appearances and conformity over everything else, and not giving a hoot about the comfort or well being of the people under your command. I just feel sorry for the Air Force folks who got wrapped up in this crap just because the rules for wearing CADPAT got delegated down to the commander of the Army.

Because wearing combats to work is so uncomfortable?  It's like wearing pajamas.  Sleeves up or down. 

People freaking out about not being able to roll up sleeves at work, having to trim beards , put their phones away and occasionally shower is emblematic of what I consider the worst traits of today's Army.  Too many individuals making mountains out of mole hills.  and then thinking that people don't care about their subordinates care and comfort because of sleeves and beards?  Man, I hate the term snowflake but this is getting out of hand.
 

gcclarke

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Remius said:
Because wearing combats to work is so uncomfortable?  It's like wearing pajamas.  Sleeves up or down. 

People freaking out about not being able to roll up sleeves at work, having to trim beards , put their phones away and occasionally shower is emblematic of what I consider the worst traits of today's Army.  Too many individuals making mountains out of mole hills.  and then thinking that people don't care about their subordinates care and comfort because of sleeves and beards?  Man, I hate the term snowflake but this is getting out of hand.

When we have on ongoing retention crisis, I would humbly suggest that it's about time that the senior leadership of the organization should start giving a hoot about how the people under their command actually think about the decisions that they make. Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that the Army doesn't really care about their subordinates care and comfort when they do something like issue an order saying no rolling of sleeves. And in doing so, yet another bundle of straw is added to the camel's back.

Is anyone going to quit only because of no rolling of sleeves? Probably not. But it's yet another example of the type of decisions being made without regard for the people it'll affect. Sleeves don't matter all that much. A service culture of disregarding the best interests of your personnel does. This is only yet another example of that culture. And it's something that we need to change if we're going to stop bleeding personnel. The CAF isn't supposed to be a revolving door; we need to get people in and keep them for longer, not drive them out the door because of petty BS like this, after having spent hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars on their training.
 

BDTyre

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So I guess there is definitely no rolling sleeves with cuffs to the outside? ;D
 

Zoomie

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gcclarke said:
I just feel sorry for the Air Force folks who got wrapped up in this crap just because the rules for wearing CADPAT got delegated down to the commander of the Army.
It’s all good, we still roll our sleeves.  We don’t follow CA dress regs.
 

gcclarke

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Ditch said:
It’s all good, we still roll our sleeves.  We don’t follow CA dress regs.

Eh, you're supposed to be. As per the dress instructions (Chapt Annex D Para 2) , specifications on how to wear CADPAT for all CAF members was devolved down to the Commander CA. Same deal for people who wear flight suits, even if they're working for an organization that doesn't fall under the RCAF, they still follow the rules laid out for flight suits by the commander of the RCAF.
 

dimsum

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CanadianTire said:
So I guess there is definitely no rolling sleeves with cuffs to the outside? ;D

I got shown that once overseas.  It was pretty cool to be able to just tug on the cuff and have it unfold.
 
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