So what is your opinion on saluting foreign officers?

[pbi]

A salute is a gesture of military respect, so you really aren't restricted  from anything as much as you are directed to salute certain people/things. However, since the purpose in saluting a commissioned officer is to honour the Queen's Commission that he carries, not the person carrying it, it probably isn't appropriate to salute an OCdt. Cheers.

 

[portcullisguy]

What's the difference between the WO and Maj rank slip-on?

Acorn

In the CF, a Major only wears crowns on ceremonial dress, and then on the shoulders, I believe.  In combats, a major wears the three stripes (thick, thin, thick).  The WO wears the crowns in both orders of dress.  However, in ceremonial dress, the crown is low on the sleeve (as it is for MWO and CWO).

Personally, if I recognize a foreign officer as the equivalent of one of our commissioned officers, and I am wearing headdress, I will salute.  If I am not wearing headdress, I will come to attention (or check my arms if marching) and say something along the lines of "Good morning, sir".

The only time I have not called officers "sir" is when we are either speaking informally ("Lieutenant, I could kick your ass at poker anyday."), or I am addressing one particular officer who is amongst other officers ("Capt Bloggins, were you looking for me, sir?") , or when I am referring to an officer in the third person ("Mr Jones went into the BOR, Sergeant", or "Major Smith was looking for you, Warrant.").

The whole "don't call me sir, I work for a living," line is a bunch of outdated nonsense.

Once upon a time, when soldiers were strictly divided along class lines, officers (commissioned and senior noncommissiond) were considered to be "gentlemen" and other ranks' were not (because they laboured).  In Victorian times, a labourer was addressed as "Jones" or "Bob Jones", and NEVER as "Mr Bob Jones" or "Sir".  In the military, since you have a rank, you are "Private Jones" or "Corporal Jones"... or simply "Jones".  However, officers were always at least "Mr Smith" and usually "Lieutenant Smith" or "Sir" because they were gentlemen, and gentlemen were not required to labour and could therefor be addressed appropriately.  You can stop calling them "Mr" when they achieve field rank (Major and above).

Nowadays, most officers work for a living, as does everyone else.  A gentleman is no long someone who does not labour, but rather a person who holds themselves in a gentle manner, ie they are courteous, polite, and well mannered.

The military has its ranking system still, to enforce its own standards.  But when I am at my civvy job (customs officer), people call me sir all the time, and it is perfectly acceptable, even though I "work for a living".  They are being polite and showing respect.

To call officers "sir" still is not reflective of their status as either working or not for a living, but rather respecting their rank and/or the Queen's commission.

Those are my two cents, please treat them kindly. 

 

[Cliffy433]

My turn to lay into this poor, abused horse...

In Banja Luka, BiH - I got lucky, recognized a Brit Offr rank and saluted.  She was so impressed/surprised that I caught it she stopped, and thanked me personally for my diligence in learning other nation's ranks.

In Ft McCoy WI - we asked about the whole "saluting of WOs thing" - we were told this: you can, and get away with it because you're not American and not expected to know - the highest levels of WO are commissioned, but since they tend to be "grizzled old veterans" from the ranks, they prefer you don't.  Either will suffice, you're a Canadian, you'll never get in too much sh*t.  As for the officer's, they were again very appreciative of foreign soldier's doing their homework.

In Shilo, MB - a group of us were walking along, and passed, what we later learned was the German equivalent of Sgt.  As he passed, he saluted us, and the snr pers among us returned the salute.  We later learned that, generally, German soldiers will salute ALL soldiers of other nations out of respect for all soldiers.  It also covers their a$$ with foreign officers - genius!

In Wpg, MB - I was attached to 2VP when CWO Surridge became RSM.  In his inaugural address to the troops, we were directed to address him as RSM or Sgt-Maj, because, after all, he earned it.  I thought it was fair and sound enough advice.  To this day I use the words RSM, CSM, and Sgt-Maj like salutes - beginning and end of the day, with "Sir" throughout.  It's well received.

Finally, to make yet another lengthy post on another lengthy thread longer, it's in the Regs, it's courteous, it really doesn't take a great deal of effort - salute foreign officers.

It's not bag-licking, brown-nosing, or ass-kissing.  It's courtesy.  You want some?  Give some... karma can be a real bitch.

 

[Acorn]

In the CF, a Major only wears crowns on ceremonial dress, and then on the shoulders, I believe.   In combats, a major wears the three stripes (thick, thin, thick).   The WO wears the crowns in both orders of dress.   However, in ceremonial dress, the crown is low on the sleeve (as it is for MWO and CWO).

Thread lost: I was referring to the difference in the Brit rank slip-ons, as below it was mentioned that Brit WOs also wear a rank slip-on on the front of their uniform (as we do with CADPAT). I was wondering how they tell the difference between a WO crown and a Maj crown.

 

[The_Falcon]

To answer your question Acorn, I spent about an hour scouring the net to find an answer (hopefully, a picture).   I found pictures of Major slip-ons, but not for WO2 (ie a CSM).   But i found this thread on a Brit Army msg board.   http://www.arrse.co.uk/html/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1244&sid=ac5243b68f4d53e53fd6f657e516e94f   It seems even our Brit friends have trouble telling the difference.   From what I gathered the only difference is the size and placement of the crown.   Major is small and at the bottom,   WO2 large and in the middle.   I like their various "methods" for spotting the difference.

 

[Acorn]

Brilliant! though the "sack of frogs bungeed up the middle" could describe some of our WO/MWO/CWO folks.

One observation is their complaint about camo "slides" (slip-ons) being hard to read. I've found the same problem with CADPAT. Also, is anyone else a bit put off/thankful about the location of CADPAT rank on our female soldiers? Finally, an excuse for looking that direction.

Acorn

 

[Acorn]

BTW, as an aside about appearance:

Sgt Maj (while saluting, of course): "Sir, you look like 10 lb of sh*t stuffed in a 5 lb sack and tied off in the middle."

Capt: "Wibble?"

Acorn

 

[1feral1]

What's the difference between the WO and Maj rank slip-on?

Acorn

Slowly but surely the Australian Army is converting to 'slip on' rank for ORs, SGTs and WOs similar to the CF and UK forces. Officers have used the slip on system for years on DPCUs, and new uniforms will have a one 'epaulette' system like the CF and UK forces. All ranks currently use 'slip on' rank only worn on the polar fleece jacket, and the newest version of desert AUSCAM DPCUs.

The MAJ crown is smaller than the WO2 crown and at the bottom of the slip on, and the WO2 crown also has a sewn 'subdued' square aroud it the same colour as the crown, and is placed in the centre of the slip on. This just confirms there will be no confusion. WO1 rank is that of the coat of arms of Australia.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[ibilola]

The obvious solution in the British Army would be to use the small crown for Major and crown in wreath for all WO2s (it's already used for the RQMS appointment). 

 

[ModlrMike]

British Maj crowns are usually full colour, smaller, and positioned towards the top of the slip-on. WO crowns are usually subdued, larger, and in the center of the slip-on.

You will generally stay out of trouble by saluting all of your own officers and those foreign ranks that you know. As you learn more, you will salute more.

One would think that with all the cross border television and movies we have in Canada, US ranks should not be that foreign to us. 

 

[Bartok5]

Saluting foreign officers is an idicator of your OWN professionalism as a Canadian soldier, Full-Stop. 

Now ask yourself if you should be saluting them.....

I cannot believe that this topic has gone back and forth for 7 pages!  What is it about simple international military courtesy that so many here don't get?!?!

 

[Gayson]

I have a question on saluting. . .

When coming to a group of officers wanting to speak to an individual are you suppose to salute all of them : Good day gentlmen and salute.  Or are you suppose to salute the highest ranking officer.

In the past I would approach the group, and once with in a few steps I would say something like Capt. so and som sir!  To distinguish himfrom the group, than come to a halt and salute.

What is the correct process for this?

 

[Inch]

You don't halt, that's why you're taught saluting on the march.  If it's a bunch of officers of the same rank, salute and say "gentlemen", if it's a bunch of officers with one outranking the others, just salute and say sir, they'll know who you're talking to.

Cheers

 

[Gayson]

I guess I wasn't specific enough in my last post.  I meant when approaching a group of officers to speak to one of them.  That'ts why I halted.

I suppose your answer would still be the same though, you salute the highest ranking officer?

 

[Inch]

Yeah, salute the highest ranking guy (or girl), then ask Capt soandso if they have a moment. Keep in mind the chain of command though, most of the time you wouldn't have a reason to talk to an officer directly unless you're passing on a message or something like that.

Cheers

 

[Gayson]

Thank you! 

 

[RatCatcher]

Simple solution to this is:

1. Go to the training cell of your unit/tasking/tour and ask for a guide to foreign ranks. I received one while in Afghanistan and I was only there for a month and a half.
2. Ask the people in other countries uniform what rank they are. I did this in Afghanistan when dealing with the Germans. They were more than happy to help and asked me to help them with our ranks.  They even went for far as to teach me to properly pronounce the MCpl rank equivalent in German so I could use the proper German Rank to explain my rank.

Knowledge of other militaries does not fall into your lap, seek out knowledge, embrace the new things and grow as a soldier/sailer/airperson!

 

[HollywoodHitman]

Saluting foreign officers is without a doubt a simple indicator of professionalism as a soldier. One thing to keep in mind though, is when working in a multi-national environment, there are some militaries where saluting is not done as a rule.......The Dutch for instance. It tends to make even their most senior officers uncomfortable.......Good to learn the most basic information when working with foreign militaries.