Spiritual Issues

[Pusser]

I would be very interested in helping to develop new military technologies for non-lethal target neutralization, or similar advances. My experience in biochemistry and pharmacology may be applicable to such a field. Can anyone advise on a career in military science?

Keep in mind that the development of chemical warfare during WWI was originally intended to introduce a more humane method to the conduct of war.  Beware the law of unintended consequences!  Not only was it not more humane, but then it steamrolled and got even worse.  And in my opinion, biological weapons are even worse than chemical ones.

 

[Loachman]

Keep in mind that the Canadian Constitution specifically recognizes the supremacy of God.

Also keep in mind that many Canadian citizens do not.

That was added in 1982. Not everybody was happy about it.

It places an importance of one religious group over several others, whether there is any real effect or not.

One reason for the separation of church and state is to prevent adherents of an "official" religion from using state mechanisms to beat up on adherents of other religions.

People are entitled to practice the faiths of their choice. A constitution is a legal document, not a religious one, and should not make any mention of any specific religion.

The same is true of a national anthem. It is not a hymn. It should be about Country and People, not religion.

 

[Ravanosh]

People are entitled to practice the faiths of their choice. A constitution is a legal document, not a religious one, and should not make any mention of any specific religion.

The same is true of a national anthem. It is not a hymn. It should be about Country and People, not religion.

Good points Loachman. There is a definite necessity for creating an atmosphere that emphasises spirituality and morality over the confines of any single religious doctrine.

However, I would like to believe that the majority of us are aware that there is something greater than Country and People, and whatever one chooses to call It (God, Yahweh, Allah, Brahman, Elohim, Achamán, Ahura Mazdā etc. etc.) we cannot ignore or exclude It from our day to day lives.

Buddhism is interesting in that it places the emphasis on the divinity of the individual experience, hence why it is not compatible with a monotheistic viewpoint. Hindusim can be integrated to some extent as the religion recognizes an overarching oneness represented by the concept of Brahman.

However, whether a religion's teachings are compatible with our own beliefs should not be cause for concern or discrimination. We must learn to accept that there are many ways to conceive of the concept that is "God", even for those who choose to understand Him through the study of the physical world.

A man who puts his faith in science rather than the divine is no atheist, for his field involves the most direct study of God's creation.

 

[aesop081]

we cannot ignore or exclude It from our day to day lives.

I beg to differ........

 

[vonGarvin]

I would like to believe that the majority of us are aware that there is something greater than Country and People

I would offer to rephrase that as this:
I would like to believe that the majority of us believe that there is something greater than Country and People.
Just changed "aware" to "believe" and emphasis on the "something".  For me, it's a pretty standard, whitebread Roman Catholic view of things.  But, irrespective of any person's belief, the emphasis, I believe, should be on inclusivity, not exclusivity.  I think it's important.  I have *this* view, that person has *that* view, but together, I think it's important to focus on the similarities, and be aware of the differences, if that means much...

 

[Jarnhamar]

A man who puts his faith in science rather than the divine is no atheist, for his field involves the most direct study of God's creation.

So.....It's impossible not top believe in God because God DID make everything so even if you say you don't believe- you're breathing His air and walking on His land and speaking His words so if there was no God then you woudn't exist. The fact we are here means there is a God, QED.

we cannot ignore or exclude It from our day to day lives.

One of the coolest thing about Padres is that they never seem to tell people what or how to think.

 

[vonGarvin]

man who puts his faith in science rather than the divine is not necessarily an atheist, for his field involves the most direct study of God's creation.

This is how I see it, and how a science teacher put it to us in school.  And that documentary Religulous (sp?) had a priest put it well, or so I thought.  "The Bible is not a book of science. It is many things.  A history book, early man's explanation of the world, and a code of conduct"

Anyway, back on topic, of sorts.

 

[Ravanosh]

However, I would like to believe that the majority of us are aware that there is something greater than Country and People, and whatever one chooses to call It, we cannot ignore or exclude It from our day to day lives.

To finish this thought, we cannot ignore or exclude the divine sanctity of existence without the consequence of creating a void, as I had mentioned previously. I did not mean that it is impossible to do so, but human nature inherently requires a connection to the spiritual in some form or another. This need comes to the forefront when death is near, whether it be our own death or that of another close to us.

What I am saying is that we may at times choose to ignore the divinity of life, and can fight to keep religion and spirituality out of our daily lives. But we are fighting against what we must all come to accept at some point, even if right now you believe in nothing more than a fleeting mortality brought about by miraculous circumstances, one still cannot deny the miracle of that very mortality.

 

[Sapplicant]

I would be very interested in helping to develop new military technologies for non-lethal target neutralization, or similar advances. My experience in biochemistry and pharmacology may be applicable to such a field. Can anyone advise on a career in military science?

I'm gonna go out on a VERY shakey limb here and drop my  :2c:


Personally, I would think that the development of such technology would fall (mostly) into the hands of the private sector. That being said, perhaps military experience could benefit you. A well chosen trade, be it combat arms or otherwise, could give you valuable real world experience in the very field you're trying to modify. What better way to know what has to be accomplished by these weapons than to actually be in the setting.



On the topic of faith, I respect and admire yours, and everybody elses, for that matter. A lot can be taken from religion on how to be a good person, and have a positive influence on the world around you (thus causing the world to have a positive influence on you). I earnestly believe that what we, as a country of the Commonwealth, stand for, is good in every sense of the word. I believe that our vision of how the world should be is what best satisfies our Higher Power.


Matthew 5:9 -> Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.

 

[aesop081]

To finish this thought, we cannot ignore or exclude the divine sanctity of existence without the consequence of creating a void,

Sure we can. What you are saying is complete rubbish but thats fine, i respect that.

but human nature inherently requires a connection to the spiritual in some form or another. This need comes to the forefront when death is near, whether it be our own death or that of another close to us.

Absolutely not.

But we are fighting against what we must all come to accept at some point

Could not disagree with you more.

I've been all over the world, seen alot of things. If there was a "god", he/she wouldnt allow it to happen. I have been to the Vatican........thats enough to convince anyone that religion is ****.

 

[George Wallace]

I earnestly believe that what we, as a country of the Commonwealth, stand for, is good in every sense of the word. I believe that our vision of how the world should be is what best satisfies our Higher Power.

I have seen our country and the Commonwealth become PC and too tolerant or perhaps "weak kneed" and lose this vision.  I have seen intolerant beliefs become acceptable both here and abroad in countries who have welcomed all with open arms and not demanded of them to leave their "baggage" behind.  So many have come to our country (and other Western nations) to enjoy our freedoms and at the same time bring intolerance with them.  Intolerance to our society.  Intolerance to our Religions.  Intolerance to our Laws.  I am watching my country and way of life selfdestruct.  It may already be too late, but if our nation. and/or that of other Western nations, is what you aspire to, then do not come and try to change it into another version of what you are escaping from or leaving.

I have no problems with someone being Religious or Spiritual.  I do have a problem with someone trying to force their Religion or beliefs on me or my society.  I am tired of Born Again Christians, Jehovah's Witness, and any other Religion that wants to send "missionaries" and literature to my home.  They are another form of SPAM.  To me "Spirituality" is a private thing.

/rant

 

[Sapplicant]

I have seen our country and the Commonwealth become PC and too tolerant or perhaps "weak kneed" and lose this vision.  I have seen intolerant beliefs become acceptable both here and abroad in countries who have welcomed all with open arms and not demanded of them to leave their "baggage" behind.  So many have come to our country (and other Western nations) to enjoy our freedoms and at the same time bring intolerance with them.  Intolerance to our society.  Intolerance to our Religions.  Intolerance to our Laws.  I am watching my country and way of life selfdestruct.  It may already be too late, but if our nation. and/or that of other Western nations, is what you aspire to, then do not come and try to change it into another version of what you are escaping from or leaving.

I have no problems with someone being Religious or Spiritual.  I do have a problem with someone trying to force their Religion or beliefs on me or my society.  I am tired of Born Again Christians, Jehovah's Witness, and any other Religion that wants to send "missionaries" and literature to my home.  They are another form of SPAM.  To me "Spirituality" is a private thing.

/rant

Agree whole-heartedly on the PC/Tolerance. Those 2 things, much like any other vice we may enjoy (tobacco, alcohol, etc...) Must be very much regulated and used in moderation.

As for my posting about our "satisfying a higher power", I was merely trying to ease the OP's conscience, and reassure him that what we fight for is good. I'm by no means a religious fanatic.

 

[vonGarvin]

To finish this thought, we cannot ignore or exclude the divine sanctity of existence without the consequence of creating a void,

I personally agree with this.  I fully understand how CDN Aviator can see the shit that is in this world, and come to the conclusion that it is a Godless world.  I find that when mankind abandons "god*" (or spirituality), or when mankind twists the idea of "god" to fight one's one definition, ambitions or desires, then that is what the RC Church would call a "mortal sin", because it puts a rift between man and "god".  I disagree that "god" would stop us, when it is us, I believe, that allows it to happen. 

But, when I see evil in this world, which I'm sure many of us have, it paradoxically confirms to me the existence of absolute good, which I believe is a sign of God**.  You see, for evil is the opposite of good, and one cannot exist without the other.  Just as there cannot be an "up"without a "down", or a "left" without a "right", so too there cannot be "good" without "evil".



*By "god" I don't exclusively mean the Abrahamic idea of God, but "that which surrounds us all", be it mankind, the great mother, Gaia, Zeus, or whatever.

**By "God" I mean my own personal belief of "god".  (see above)

 

[KrazyHamburglar]

Sure we can. What you are saying is complete rubbish but thats fine, i respect that.



Absolutely not.

Could not disagree with you more.

I've been all over the world, seen alot of things. If there was a "god", he/she wouldnt allow it to happen. I have been to the Vatican........thats enough to convince anyone that religion is ****.

I was reading through this tread and was trying to find a way to express my opinion without being too rude... your post can describe magnificently what I meant to say, and for that, I tip my hat to you sir...

As for the other ones with any feeling of deity... I cannot disagree more with you but I will defend to the death to preserve your right to your opinion

 

[Loachman]

I respect others' faiths and beliefs, even if I do not share them or fully understand them. I accept that they are real for them, even if they are not for me. Their ability to practice them openly and safely must be protected.

I find religions interesting and enlightening, even if I do not believe. There is much to learn from their teachings and their followers. I am currently doing a little light research into Catholicism. I began that for a very specific reason, but the more that I learn (little, still), the more interested I become. As an Englishman by birth, I started from a slightly prejudiced position, induced by history, but that no longer applies.

I still do not, however, believe that there is a God, and I have been that way since childhood. I cannot prove that I am right, nor do I have any reason to make such an attempt. His existence is not impossible, although it may not be quite in the form that His followers believe. I see plenty of indications that He could exist, but plenty of indications to the contrary as well. I have yet to see hard evidence, and I am an evidence-based person.

I do not feel any void or lack in my life as a result of this absence of belief in a Deity. Lack of an afterlife does not bother me, nor will it. I cannot suddenly believe what I do not believe, even in the face of death (and I have been in that position more than once). I cannot turn belief on at will any more than you can turn it off. Absence of religion does not prevent me from being as moral as the next fellow. I am completely content with all of this.

Regardless, and back to the original topic, I am reasonably sure that you can find a place for yourself within the CF, and make a valuable and valued contribution, should you so choose. That is for you to decide, though, based upon your interests and your personal interpretation of your faith. That may be as a Padre, or it may be as something else.

Service as a Padre is at least as important as service in any other occupation, combat or support. Your contribution to the overall effort would be no less valuable than somebody out in a LAV, a Leopard, a Frigate, a Chinook, or, yes, even a lowly CF18.

 

[vonGarvin]

Service as a Padre is at least as important as service in any other occupation, combat or support. Your contribution to the overall effort would be no less valuable than somebody out in a LAV, a Leopard, a Frigate, a Chinook, or, yes, even a lowly CF18.

I couldn't agree more; and to emphasise, chaplains do more than provide religious services.  Much like my analogy of religion in society, they do more than just give a moral voice in the corner.  They provide social services, they provide an ear, and sometimes a much needed laugh. 

One padre before we deployed talked about spirituality.  He cautioned that it was NOT about God, religion, or anything, but the idea of humanity being that "bigger thing".  He couldn't care less if we were religious or not.  He just wanted us to remember that we weren't alone, "No man is an Island" and all that.  That's how he put his definition of "spirituality". 

 

[Loachman]

One of the other important things that a Padre does is just be where troops are. Not having to expose oneself to the same dangers but doing it anyway sets an unbeatable example.

 

[Ravanosh]

I may have expressed my opinions in the wrong manner. It was never my intent to espouse the superiority of any one religion, hence my emphasis on spirituality. I believe that philosophical certainty is a delusion, and it can be a dangerous one at that.

Also I was not attempting to prove the existence of God, or to force my beliefs on others. However, that my faith in a higher power is "rubbish" is frankly offensive. If the absence of spirituality does not leave a void in the hearts of men, then I see little purpose in the Chaplaincy.

Yes there are questions, particularly how any manner of God would allow evil to exist. We all make choices, and it is through the exercise of our free will that both good and evil come into the world.

If you would prefer a qualified scientific perspective, you may find the works of Dr. Thomas Campbell of interest. He is a well respected NASA physicist who is heavily involved in the fields of remote-viewing and metaphysics. There is an 18-part video series available on Youtube that is an excellent introduction for open-minded skeptics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxECb7zcQhQ 
(you can skip to part 2 without missing a whole lot)

If you do study his work, you will begin to understand what I meant by science being a practical extension of spiritual understanding.

 

[sky777]

To me "Spirituality" is a private thing.

+1000000000000000

 

[aesop081]

However, that my faith in a higher power is "rubbish" is frankly offensive.

What you said was :

To finish this thought, we cannot ignore or exclude the divine sanctity of existence without the consequence of creating a void,

I did not intend to offend you, which is why i said that i respect that you have certain beleifs. That being said, i can in fact ignore "the divine sanctity......." without creating a void. I live like that every day.......no void.

If the absence of spirituality does not leave a void in the hearts of men, then I see little purpose in the Chaplaincy.

The chaplaincy serves a purpose for those who have similar beleifs to yours. for everyone else, they are a freindly ear when times are tough without bringing religion and god into the conversation. They know how to do that.......

Yes there are questions, particularly how any manner of God would allow evil to exist. We all make choices, and it is through the exercise of our free will that both good and evil come into the world.

In the places i have been, "free will" is not some abstract concept......."free will" has killed thouhsands, Destroyed lives..........

Take a tour around the world and get back to me.