Strict security, growing costs impede major military purchase

[Snafu-Bar]

The price of National Defence in the grand scheme of things FAR outweighs any costs as far as i'm concerned. If it takes a billion dollars to get together a defence network of manufactures so be it. That billion invested will pay off later when it's needed the most.

pay now or pay twice later.

As for OUR kit not being compatible with our allies what relevance does that have on the defence of our own nation?


Cheers

 

[George Wallace]

As for OUR kit not being compatible with our allies what relevance does that have on the defence of our own nation?

AH!

This statement tells us a lot.  It tells us that you really don't have any concept at all about these matters and their relevance to Canada's position in the World.  Sorry, but that was a very telling statement that exposed your lack of experience and knowledge.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

I am a civvy still, and experience of the inner workings are obviously not privvy to me. If it makes me look like a fool so be it, but from my perspective having the tools and utensils of defence being made at home for our own defence seems to have no relevance upon how it fits in with the likes of our allies.



Cheers

 

[geo]

Snafu....
If our troops are on the front line and things break, it would be good that our kit IS compatible with those of our allies.  Their maintainers and our maintainers can pool their resources and ensure that ALL the kit works as it should and we can keep ALL our fighting troops fighting... instead of having them fighting with one arm tied behind their back (handicaped) OR waiting back in the rear - waiting for repairs to be completed - prior to rejoining the fight.

You have to look at the big picture - else you'll be paying thru the nose.
By your statements I figure that you haven't started paying taxes yet OR if you are, you aren't paying too much at present.
Trust me - it hurts.

 

[Snafu-Bar]

Ok i got ya now, i mistook compatibility with crossfit Having something that the others don't and supplying it ALA filling a hole.

Yes having something that can be of scavengable use is all part and parcel of cutting costs and easing wait times, but i still don't see how having our own gear made at home would be such huge hurdle. If it's something that is being culled due to political or other such treaties or regulations(avro arrow) then i say it's time we stood up for ourselves.

And yes been paying taxes for 20+ years now thanks.

 

[George Wallace]

I am a civvy still, and experience of the inner workings are obviously not privvy to me. If it makes me look like a fool so be it, but from my perspective having the tools and utensils of defence being made at home for our own defence seems to have no relevance upon how it fits in with the likes of our allies.



Cheers

Being able to communicate on the numerous types of radios is of very high importance.

Being able to chamber and fire Ammunition is of very high importance.

Being able to get replacement parts for vehicles is of very high importance.

Being able to use the various types of fuel is of very high importance.

Do these make more sense?

 

[armyca08]

You didn't see the difference?



The Cdn Defence Contractor's employees didn't become US citizens.    ;D



On the more serious side, but following that statement, the "new" US citizens would then be liable to US laws and regulations and more easily monitored/controlled/policed by US authorities and open to prosecution under existing US Laws.  The Canadian "citizens" would not be so easily "regulated".

Oddly I disagree with that assertation- although I may not understand the scope of the NSA and CIA operations outside the US verses the FBI and NSA (homeland security) within the US. I always thought they were far more liberated on the outside of the US even with the domestic tapping laws overiden by the president.

 

[armyca08]

karl & snafu... buying Canadian is a great concept but, consider the time it takes to go from the design to prototype to production model.  Once the model is decided upon, then we have production costs - spread out over a small number of units... and finally, the kit we have probably won't be compatible with the kit used by our allies.

We've experienced this problem time and time again.  Considering the size of our Forces - buying canadian isn't always the best solution.

Coulnd't you like engineer it to work with the unit attachments you would have bought?
Also isn't it all Canadian Money anyway? What does the unit cost matter if 50% of that goes back to the government as taxes and the rest stays in the Canadian Economy?

 

[geo]

Oddly I disagree with that assertation- although I may not understand the scope of the NSA and CIA operations outside the US verses the FBI and NSA (homeland security) within the US. I always thought they were far more liberated on the outside of the US even with the domestic tapping laws overiden by the president.

Given that those new Canadian citzens are residing in Canada, it would be real hard for the US authorities to exercise control over them..... VS what they can do with those living within their borders.

 

[George Wallace]

Oddly I disagree with that assertation- although I may not understand the scope of the NSA and CIA operations outside the US verses the FBI and NSA (homeland security) within the US. I always thought they were far more liberated on the outside of the US even with the domestic tapping laws overiden by the president.

???

Who said anything about outside of the US.  The point is, if they are US citizens, in the employ of a US Defence Contractor, they would be more susceptable to prosecution under US Laws than had they been Canadian or any other Foreign citizen working for a Canadian Defence Contractor.   

 

[rtangri]

yeh guys it would be great if Canada could produce its own defense. Not only jobs, but the profit off selling the weapons to ally (and not so ally haha) countries.  Yet.... Unfortunately, my ethnic country (India) attempted the same. Realizing the enormous cost of buying all their arms from Russia, and waiting for the US to send their second hand airplanes and aircraft carriers, the result: India tried to develop its own tank.... Years and years afterwards, with the too many governments using the funding to the program politically (some governments over-funded the project resulting in corruption, and other underfunding, well resulting in the obvious). America is more of a two party politics that both realistically could be seen as mid to right (dem) and right (rep). They both know the military development is in the nations interest, Canadians are too lefty (AKA NDP party hahaha) too see that not only does it benefit them to develop their own weapons, the jobs, the profit of sales, and technological advancements.

back to topic, buy from russia, the military shop for the power seeking nation! haha. By the way, the Indian tank was useless, India would still continue to buy off Russia and will for the next 50 years!

 

[rtangri]

BY THE WAY
another thing done in India:

Giving contracts to RUSSIAN companies to produce arms but must produce half or all of the item in INDIA. Basically Russian technology being put to use under the Indian labour force: Russia wins with its companies being profitable as labour is cheaper, India wins as it gets cheaper weapons.

 

[geo]

rtangri...

Would you mind knocking of with the "haha's"..... not funny for one thing.

When Canada chose it's new family of weapons, a company called Dimaco was incorporated and manufactured under licence, the C7 and C8 under licence from cold and the C6 and C9 under licence from FN.  Many years later.... Diemaco is now part of Colt.

When Canada chose it's new family of armoured vehicles, GM Diesel manufactured the Cougar & Grizzly under licence from MOWAG from Switzerland.  Later, GM Diesel produced the Bison... and then the LAV III.... Now, GM Diesel is part of General Dynamics Defence

Starting to see a pattern here ???

The Canadian market is VERY small and when dealing on the international market.... we'll get eaten alive over time - if we have an interesting product.

 

[rtangri]

THE point of the comments I am trying to make are that temporarily Russia would be a great alternative to the US
thanks

 

[TacticalW]

THE point of the comments I am trying to make are that temporarily Russia would be a great alternative to the US
thanks

I would say now would "not" be a good time with the current world situation to rely on Russia for our military's hardware, maybe if they one day become faithful allies with the west sure, but not until then. For now they are a threat to our interests and there's always room for things to get worse.

 

[KevinB]

THE point of the comments I am trying to make are that temporarily Russia would be a great alternative to the US
thanks

Please STFU.

 

[cameron]

The last time I checked most of America's security leaks came from their own people.

 

[George Wallace]

The last time I checked most of America's security leaks came from their own people.

That's quite profound, seeing as they don't allow outsiders into their mists.  I could compare that comment to "Women are 99% more likely to get cervical cancer than men".  >

 

[geo]

... women are 99.99% more likely to get pregnant 8)

... women are 99.99% more likely to get maternity leave ;D

... Married women are more likely to live longer than married men.
Which leads to the question of why the men would die earlier.... ???
Answer:  Because they want to >

 

[geo]

THE point of the comments I am trying to make are that temporarily Russia would be a great alternative to the US
thanks

Hmmm... at a time when Russia is acting it's old bearish self, you think that we should be buying equipment from them VS equipment from secure suppliers from allied countries ???  And if Russia suddenly decides to tinker with parts & programming OR choses to withhold essential parts OR declares war against one of our allies ???  What are we supposed to do with all that expensive kit ???