Strict security, growing costs impede major military purchase

[aesop081]

THE point of the comments I am trying to make are that temporarily Russia would be a great alternative to the US
thanks

Algerian MIG-29s anyone ?

:

 

[Greymatters]

yeh guys it would be great if Canada could produce its own defense. Not only jobs, but the profit off selling the weapons to ally (and not so ally haha) countries.  Yet.... Unfortunately, my ethnic country (India) attempted the same. Realizing the enormous cost of buying all their arms from Russia, and waiting for the US to send their second hand airplanes and aircraft carriers, the result: India tried to develop its own tank.... Years and years afterwards, with the too many governments using the funding to the program politically (some governments over-funded the project resulting in corruption, and other underfunding, well resulting in the obvious). America is more of a two party politics that both realistically could be seen as mid to right (dem) and right (rep). They both know the military development is in the nations interest, Canadians are too lefty (AKA NDP party hahaha) too see that not only does it benefit them to develop their own weapons, the jobs, the profit of sales, and technological advancements.

back to topic, buy from russia, the military shop for the power seeking nation! haha. By the way, the Indian tank was useless, India would still continue to buy off Russia and will for the next 50 years!

I dont want to stereotype you as some kid sitting in his mom's basement, but you write like some kid sitting in his mom's basement.  Please stick to topics you are knowledgable on, which apparently isnt Canada, and stick to topics as outlined in the thread, as your reply weaves around to different subjects like a drunken sailor...

 

[Edward Campbell]

A few more (random) points:

• A defence industrial base may be a very god thing – even a strategic requirement for countries that are certain that their survival depends upon a superior military; but

• Despite the fact that much of what we take as the “modern world” resulted from or was radically improved by military R&D, military industries are, generally, bad investments. For all the acknowledged successes of civilianized defence production, we would likely have gotten all the benefits just as soon and at substantially lower cost had “we” (all of us) not had to pay for a huge, lumbering and generally technologically inept* US and Russian defence development systems;

• Countries like Canada can and do compete in the Western defence industrial base; but

• As a general rule we succeed despite government plans and policies; and

• Everything we buy for our armed forces ought to matter. If it matters then we should be able to guarantee that everything we buy can be maintained – through to factory level rebuild – on shore (i.e. in North America) or, at least, within the borders of a reliable ally. That means we must never, ever buy Russian equipment - not until Russia is an American colony, in any event.


---------------
* How can anyone describe the US (or Russian) defence industries as technologically inept? Because, in my opinion every technological success was accompanied by too many failures – more than the equivalent success : failure ratio for similar civilian industries. Someone with some time on their hands and access to an average university library service can verify that fact - and yes, I'm certain it is a fact.

 

[armyca08]

I still think it is easier to DIY.. I'd like to see the US MIC start buying off Canadian Crowns for outdated techs at 10x the startup value so they can force forward momentum in the technology.

I personally think Canada should be able to service its equipment without relying on other countries - as part of the Security Establishment - no ifs ans or buts.

Although Canada has leased Russian Equipment - leasing is not much differet than purchasing. Only the needs are more temporary..

actully know what came out of these delays --- leasing of russian and american equipment .... $$$$$.



D.I.Y. and don't offer a IPO until you can afford a takeover.

With a crown corp you build infrastructure and pick who you would like to build up.. like other crown corps.. but hold on is that getting close to socialism? What you are upset you are paying 2x the cost for 50% taxed, and 30% profit share, and 10% infrastructure development, and 10% support for local employment and jobs provisions and food and stuff for people and a bunch of patents and capacity for on demand production

The US DOD is the largest company in the world...


The other option.. buy those companies and rake in sure profits


http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=gd


Stuff like that may help with Quebecs laging export sector due to the high dollar , and ontarios manfacturing slump.. why buy used leopards when you can buy a closed auto factory and DIY

 

[KevinB]

A 65 ton tank with laminate armor and a sophisticated electronic fire control system and other systems is a hell of a lot different from a Ford F150...

Canada ruined its Arms industry by closing Canadian Arsenals, and ammo with Dominion Arsenals.  Canada got out of the Crown Corporations for defence in the Trudeau years.

Losing Diemaco to Colt Defense was another sin.

 

[cameron]

That's quite profound, seeing as they don't allow outsiders into their mists.   I could compare that comment to "Women are 99% more likely to get cervical cancer than men".   >

Good one George you got me there but i'm just saying that Canada wouldn't be any less competent at keeping state secrets than our neighbours south of the border.

 

[George Wallace]

.................but i'm just saying that Canada wouldn't be any less competent at keeping state secrets than our neighbours south of the border.

Actually; Canadians are very lax when it comes to Security Matters.  Why did the Government bow under pressure from "people" who claimed that they expected to see what their "Tax Dollars" did for them and "Why couldn't they access military Bases?" and come up with this "OPEN BASE POLICY"?  I have lived on all types of CF Bases over the years and I can tell you our Security is a joke.  Now, I ask you, as a Foreign Government, would you trust your State Military Secrets to a country like that?

 

[cameron]

Well I must admit I didn't know about that open base policy (What will Canadian politicians think of next?), you win on that point.

 

[KevinB]

ah the wisdom of the Open Base policy  :

second Canada was implicated in selling Bell 212 Helicopter to Iran several years ago...

 

[Greymatters]

Actually; Canadians are very lax when it comes to Security Matters.  Why did the Government bow under pressure from "people" who claimed that they expected to see what their "Tax Dollars" did for them and "Why couldn't they access military Bases?" and come up with this "OPEN BASE POLICY"?  I have lived on all types of CF Bases over the years and I can tell you our Security is a joke.  Now, I ask you, as a Foreign Government, would you trust your State Military Secrets to a country like that?

An unarmed overaged overweight and physically limited security professional guards your local CF base.

Not true in 100% of cases, but it is the most common stereotype...

 

[rtangri]

As for calling me a drunken sailor: Canada is leasing some Russian helecopters temporarily arent they?

 

[aesop081]

Canada is leasing some Russian helecopters temporarily arent they?

I leased a GM once.....that didnt meant it was what i wanted or needed. What i did need was a car in a hurry to hold me over until i could get what i wanted.

Those helos we are leasing, we dont have to maintain them for 20 years and hope we gets adequate parts and sevice for that period of time.

 

[geo]

As for calling me a drunken sailor: Canada is leasing some Russian helecopters temporarily arent they?

Canada is leasing russian built helicopters operated by a canadian based company.... not the same thing