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Halifax Tar

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You mean the 'Lower Deck Lawyers' now have a job description, an office and a tee time?

That's pure genius: co-opting the trouble makers ;)

To be clear I am not in opposition to a strong and smart MS and below component. I simply take much pride in my role as the promoter and protector of their health and welfare, its a great and sacred privileged to be given such a role.

But if they don't see us as doing that effectively anymore then we need to fix that. I want C&POs not wanna be officers.

We are drifting way off topic, mea culpa. Forgive me, I am very passionate about that part of my job.
 

FSTO

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Don't give them any more ideas.
Season 2 Idea GIF by Portlandia
 

daftandbarmy

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To be clear I am not in opposition to a strong and smart MS and below component. I simply take much pride in my role as the promoter and protector of their health and welfare, its a great and sacred privileged to be given such a role.

But if they don't see us as doing that effectively anymore then we need to fix that. I want C&POs not wanna be officers.

We are drifting way off topic, mea culpa. Forgive me, I am very passionate about that part of my job.

My hobby horse enters the chat...

Co-option of the SNCO ranks by the 'Corporation' over the past couple of decades has contributed to the rise of a Mini-Me Commissioned Officer culture, with all the associated perils to discipline, personnel management, professional development etc.
 

Underway

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Fight how you train? I've worked with all three in the field. In the RCRs defense I took only one patrol with the new RCR RSM to realize that bloused boots in the desert were just too friggin hot, and that the pants were actually designed to allow for airflow while keeping dirt out of your boots when unbloused.

It's like they designed the combats to be functional or something, and the army decided that isn't how they want to use them.
 

Underway

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Co-option of the SNCO ranks by the 'Corporation' over the past couple of decades has contributed to the rise of a Mini-Me Commissioned Officer culture, with all the associated perils to discipline, personnel management, professional development etc.
Sometimes you post things with jargon and I have no idea what the hell you are referring too! :unsure: :LOL:

Can you please elaborate for me? I think I kinda get what you're driving at but not to sure...
 

dimsum

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It's like they designed the combats to be functional or something, and the army decided that isn't how they want to use them.
Story of every military.

X is designed to be used in this way, but the military doesn't allow it to be used in that way.

See: Tuque/gloves/jacket

Now that we have completely derailed this thread...
 

dimsum

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What's new... I'm waiting for it to become a PRes or Army reorg thread...

At least its still uniform related!
Of course now the obvious question is whether "the moustache" is above, or below, "NAVY MARINE" :sneaky:
 

daftandbarmy

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Sometimes you post things with jargon and I have no idea what the hell you are referring too! :unsure: :LOL:

Can you please elaborate for me? I think I kinda get what you're driving at but not to sure...

When you dangle a Commission in front of a good WO/CWO as the ultimate prize in the lottery of life, some start behaving more like Officers and 'yes men/women/peeps' to the detriment of the role of the WO/CWO which, in part, includes 'keeping an eye on' Officers and giving them good, frank, unfiltered advice and feedback.

If you want to CFR to Captain it might not go well for you if you jack up the CO (respectfully of course) for screwing the troops around, whether or not the CO realizes he's done that.

Also, when you create positions like Bde CWO, Command CWO etc, you turn our best into yes men/peeps and bag holders for Generals you politicize them, which is not a great example for the fire eating hell raisers we need to help us win future wars, IMHO. The 'Command Team', a thing we've aped from the US, is not a concept we should be promoting because it does not exist in really good militaries where dynamic tension is the best way to ensure the best led units and formations.

And yeah... derail complete!
 

Halifax Tar

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When you dangle a Commission in front of a good WO/CWO as the ultimate prize in the lottery of life, some start behaving more like Officers and 'yes men/women/peeps' to the detriment of the role of the WO/CWO which, in part, includes 'keeping an eye on' Officers and giving them good, frank, unfiltered advice and feedback.

If you want to CFR to Captain it might not go well for you if you jack up the CO (respectfully of course) for screwing the troops around, whether or not the CO realizes he's done that.

Also, when you create positions like Bde CWO, Command CWO etc, you turn our best into yes men/peeps and bag holders for Generals you politicize them, which is not a great example for the fire eating hell raisers we need to help us win future wars, IMHO. The 'Command Team', a thing we've aped from the US, is not a concept we should be promoting because it does not exist in really good militaries where dynamic tension is the best way to ensure the best led units and formations.

And yeah... derail complete!

You are so much more eloquent than I am. :)
 

Underway

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When you dangle a Commission in front of a good WO/CWO as the ultimate prize in the lottery of life, some start behaving more like Officers and 'yes men/women/peeps' to the detriment of the role of the WO/CWO which, in part, includes 'keeping an eye on' Officers and giving them good, frank, unfiltered advice and feedback.

If you want to CFR to Captain it might not go well for you if you jack up the CO (respectfully of course) for screwing the troops around, whether or not the CO realizes he's done that.

Also, when you create positions like Bde CWO, Command CWO etc, you turn our best into yes men/peeps and bag holders for Generals you politicize them, which is not a great example for the fire eating hell raisers we need to help us win future wars, IMHO. The 'Command Team', a thing we've aped from the US, is not a concept we should be promoting because it does not exist in really good militaries where dynamic tension is the best way to ensure the best led units and formations.

And yeah... derail complete!
Interesting take. So the US isn't a really good military? What military would you say is "really good".

Of course, that's an army and maybe a purple problem, not a military problem. CFR to officer doesn't require you to restart your career in the Combat Arms. For the Navy and airforce unless you are in the technical branch you generally do. Because NWOs and pilots are trained to do things that no NCM are trained for. So unless you CFR to GSO, Log, or Engineering branches congrats, go back to the training stream and learn to fly/navigate.
 

FSTO

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Also, when you create positions like Bde CWO, Command CWO etc, you turn our best into yes men/peeps and bag holders for Generals you politicize them, which is not a great example for the fire eating hell raisers we need to help us win future wars, IMHO. The 'Command Team', a thing we've aped from the US, is not a concept we should be promoting because it does not exist in really good militaries where dynamic tension is the best way to ensure the best led units and formations.
Dimsum, evidence duex regarding transition of colonial power.
 

dimsum

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So unless you CFR to GSO, Log, or Engineering branches congrats, go back to the training stream and learn to fly/navigate.
ACSOs and AECs, just off the top of my head, are technically GSOs according to pay scale.
 

dapaterson

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Canada convenes.
Of course, we then need a constitutional conference to decide if it's two or three buttons in French, and the ordering of French and English buttons depending on the language designation of the unit the individual is posted to.

We'll need a CPO1 to run the shop in Ottawa, a LCdr Buttons for each coast, and a PO1 Tar in ADM Mat as LCMM, Buttons, DEU, Naval.
 

Underway

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ACSOs and AECs, just off the top of my head, are technically GSOs according to pay scale.
In my experience, GSO is a catch-all for an officer who doesn't have a trade for whatever reason. But I get what you're putting down.
 

dimsum

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In my experience, GSO is a catch-all for an officer who doesn't have a trade for whatever reason. But I get what you're putting down.
Yeah, once again an acronym is used for very different purposes, leading to possible confusion.
 
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