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Halifax Tar

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Interesting take. So the US isn't a really good military? What military would you say is "really good".

Of course, that's an army and maybe a purple problem, not a military problem. CFR to officer doesn't require you to restart your career in the Combat Arms. For the Navy and airforce unless you are in the technical branch you generally do. Because NWOs and pilots are trained to do things that no NCM are trained for. So unless you CFR to GSO, Log, or Engineering branches congrats, go back to the training stream and learn to fly/navigate.

With the exception of SCP CPO1/CWOs CFR Log Os go into their training stream with some PLARing done with the right qualifications.
 

Furniture

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When you dangle a Commission in front of a good WO/CWO as the ultimate prize in the lottery of life, some start behaving more like Officers and 'yes men/women/peeps' to the detriment of the role of the WO/CWO which, in part, includes 'keeping an eye on' Officers and giving them good, frank, unfiltered advice and feedback.

If you want to CFR to Captain it might not go well for you if you jack up the CO (respectfully of course) for screwing the troops around, whether or not the CO realizes he's done that.

Also, when you create positions like Bde CWO, Command CWO etc, you turn our best into yes men/peeps and bag holders for Generals you politicize them, which is not a great example for the fire eating hell raisers we need to help us win future wars, IMHO. The 'Command Team', a thing we've aped from the US, is not a concept we should be promoting because it does not exist in really good militaries where dynamic tension is the best way to ensure the best led units and formations.

And yeah... derail complete!
I think "Institutional Leadership" was pushed with good intentions, but has morphed into "If you don't want to be a Lvl 3 CPO 1, you're not worth my time". That kind of selection leads to more careerists rising to the top, while the ones more inclined to be disagreeable in the interests of their people get left behind.

I respectfully disagree about Command Teams, as I think formalizing the relationship between Cox'n/SWO/RSM and CO isn't a bad idea. I think having a Snr NCM voice at the table every day is a good idea, the bag holding is done by the Lt(N)/Capt/LCdr/Maj EA from what I have seen from the outside here in Ottawa.
 

Eye In The Sky

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The problem with the Command Team concept is when the NCM part of the Team forgets they aren’t the DCO or even a Flt Comd or Maj equivalent.

Or, when the WCWO thinks they are above a CO…

That is our Comd Tm problem. It didn’t seem to exist a few decades ago when COs were COs and RSM/SCWO etc functioned perfectly fine.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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The problem with the Command Team concept is when the NCM part of the Team forgets they aren’t the DCO or even a Flt Comd or Maj equivalent.

Or, when the WCWO thinks they are above a CO…

That is our Comd Tm problem. It didn’t seem to exist a few decades ago when COs were COs and RSM/SCWO etc functioned perfectly fine.

So essentially this:

9503.gif
 

Eye In The Sky

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Also in the “problems with our NCM ranks”

Command Master Sailor.

Fuck. Just stop. Seriously this is one of the dumbest things lately.
 

Halifax Tar

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Also in the “problems with our NCM ranks”

Command Master Sailor.

Fuck. Just stop. Seriously this is one of the dumbest things lately.

I don't want to pass a negative judgement on the position. I'm dismayed that people thing we aren't representing them well enough.

This is a nice simplified version…I think the CWO/CPO Corps concept is majorly flawed and is going in the wrong direction.

View attachment 71046

Bingo.
 

dimsum

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I hear you. To me if the MS and below feel they are being represented by the C&POs so poorly that they need their own command positions then we, C&POs, need to suck back and reload on how we are doing business and reestablish our role properly.
Counterpoint - The MS and below are screaming for "a seat at the table", and now they're there.

So...if things continue to not change or, even worse, slide further into crap, then the senior ranks can say "hey, you [Command/Formation MS] were part of this..."

Diabolical. :devilish:


I'm dismayed that people thing we aren't representing them well enough.
If you've read CAF Reddit in the past few months, that is a British-level understatement.

If the posts there are even half-true, the attitude of the Jr NCMs is...not good.
 

Halifax Tar

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Counterpoint - The MS and below are screaming for "a seat at the table", and now they're there.

So...if things continue to not change or, even worse, slide further into crap, then the senior ranks can say "hey, you [Command/Formation MS] were part of this..."

Diabolical. :devilish:



If you've read CAF Reddit in the past few months, that is a British-level understatement.

If the posts there are even half-true, the attitude of the Jr NCMs is...not good.

I don't Reddit, I find the lay out confusing lol god I'm a dino hahaha.
 

Underway

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If you've read CAF Reddit in the past few months, that is a British-level understatement.

If the posts there are even half-true, the attitude of the Jr NCMs is...not good.
If you've read Reddit in the past few months period... the attitude of everyone on there is ... not good.

People just go there to bitch (like some on here.. lol). Me, I just talk to people and see what's going on. I don't argue with the NCM's I listen and discuss. You'd be surprised what problems you can solve. And of course, you find out pretty quick who actually has a problem vs who is causing a problem vs who is a problem.
 

AmmoTech90

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I was CWO in a technical position. I acted as a L2 Formation CWO/L1 CWO on several occasions for up to six months. I was asked if I was interested in succession planning (I got promoted on the cusp between being good at your job and being selected for succession planning).

I said sure, what unit?
Edmonton, but first a year of language training.
For Edmonton? Can I go to the Supply Depot in Montreal, I ask. I know the guy there is leaving when I would be finishing French.
Nope, you must go to Edmonton after taking a year of French.
Ok, what happens when I leave Edmonton in three years having forgotten all my French. You will go back on French training.
Ok, I can carry on a conversation in French, but my grammar and writing are terrible (see the test I just did- got B in spoken, AA in others). Can I get by with that?
No, you need BBB.
Ok, no thank you, I'll stay here, and go PERX.
-Log Branch CWO head explodes-

Go West they said, what a crock.
 

daftandbarmy

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I was CWO in a technical position. I acted as a L2 Formation CWO/L1 CWO on several occasions for up to six months. I was asked if I was interested in succession planning (I got promoted on the cusp between being good at your job and being selected for succession planning).

I said sure, what unit?
Edmonton, but first a year of language training.
For Edmonton? Can I go to the Supply Depot in Montreal, I ask. I know the guy there is leaving when I would be finishing French.
Nope, you must go to Edmonton after taking a year of French.
Ok, what happens when I leave Edmonton in three years having forgotten all my French. You will go back on French training.
Ok, I can carry on a conversation in French, but my grammar and writing are terrible (see the test I just did- got B in spoken, AA in others). Can I get by with that?
No, you need BBB.
Ok, no thank you, I'll stay here, and go PERX.
-Log Branch CWO head explodes-

Go West they said, what a crock.

That's amazingly terrible...
 

Gorgo

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Strange thought just came to me when I glanced over the latest edition of Your Navy Today, where there's a small note about some naval engineering officers graduating from HMS Sultan in the UK:

If NWOs get their own "wings" now, why can't MSEOs and NCSEOs? Maybe mix the NWO badge with crossed lighting bolts for MSEOs and a crossed lighting bolt and sabre for NCSEOs?

It's only fair, right?
 
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